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Showing posts with label Nolan Show. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Nolan Show. Show all posts
Fra Hughes writing for the blog of Jude Collins calls for the Nolan Show to be cancelled by the BBC.

The Nolan Show is one of BBC Northern Ireland flagship presentations. It has been at the centre of many controversies over several years with its presenter Stephen Nolan being accused by many of fomenting sectarianism through his style of presentation and the platform used by the program to engage with the public.

A recent Change.org petition explicitly calling into question the format used by the Nolan Show, has to date received the support of over 12,000 signatories.

Rather than addressing the issues brought forward by the petition, BBC Northern Ireland has condemned those who have signed the petition as being Trolls involved in a tactical smear campaign of the Nolan Show and by extension Stephen Nolan?

I signed the petition. I am not a troll. I am a concerned citizen who has deep reservations about the style and content of the Nolan Show on BBC Northern Ireland television, and the Nolan Show on BBC Northern Ireland Radio Ulster.

These reservations centre around the concerns raised in the petition, that the show heightens sectarian tensions within regional society through the use of a style of presentation that encourages rating growth, through the exploitation of the events and historical facts that divide us.

While every program and every journalist has the right to comment on the news, past events, current affairs and on future proposals that may affect society at large, when that journalist or broadcaster is employed by a National Television service, provided for and paid by the Citizens of the Nation, those views in the public arena can be dissected and examined by the license fee payer for accountability and impartiality. That must be the cornerstone of National reporting.

Content in News programmes must reflect the current reality of the situation and where possible be balanced and above reproach. Talk show style programs. of which the Nolan Show on television and BBC Radio Ulster are prime examples, have a different style of content. While they may reflect the different opinions expressed by different groups within society, the role of the presenter is to provide a space for all those who wish to be heard and have that opportunity, if appropriate.

When the presenter becomes the news, something has gone drastically wrong.

The very fact the 12,000 citizens, within the region of Northern Ireland, have chosen to sign a petition calling in to doubt the neutrality of the show, the credibility of the corporation and its charter, proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, we have a problem.

Many individuals, including myself, feel Stephen Nolan and the Nolan Show have crossed the line of journalistic neutrality in an attempt to boost ratings? A subject which is very important for them.

BBC Northern Ireland must take seriously a petition signed by over 12,000 people many of whom are licence fee payers, listen to BBC radio and watch BBC television.

They must not demonise, dismiss, or misrepresent those people as Trolls. It is dishonest, it is deceitful and discredits the individuals involved.

I have chosen not to listen to the Nolan Show on the radio nor watch the Nolan Show on television. I have found it to be partisan, imbalanced and at times it appears to embrace the sectarian underbelly of society here.

I personally feel the Nolan Show has overrun itself and is past its best use-by/best before date.

BBC NI should consider canning the show or rebooting the format.

I do not wish to see my license fee contribution spent on a program that on balance seems to have a more negative than a positive effect on society.

The 12,000 people who have signed this petition are but a small reflection of the true number of individuals who have deep reservations about the continuation of this show on BBC Northern Ireland.

One of the largest political parties in the North of Ireland refuses to engage with Stephen Nolan or the Nolan Show?

This political party has a huge mandate from its voters to reflect their views in public, in society, in government and in the arena of public opinion. The fact that this party reflects the deep concerns shown by many of its electors, that the Nolan Show may not be fit for purpose, together with the 12,000 individuals, who have signed the petition, many of whom are not party politically affiliated, must encourage BBC Northern Ireland, its senior managers and program staff to reconsider the position the Nolan Show has both on regional television and regional radio.

Perhaps it is time for a change. Perhaps it is time society here moved on and moved forward. Perhaps it is time to move on from the Nolan Show, the format and substance of a program that has 12,000 people questioning its neutrality and impartiality, which has a national political party, with huge local support, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, refusing to engage with the show.

Perhaps now is the time for a new format and a new presenter.

Here is the wording of the petition:

This petition calls for BBC NI to cancel the Nolan Show on the basis that it seeks to stir sectarian tensions for ratings. In doing so, it is detrimental to good community relations and building a shared society. The show is also irresponsible in providing a regular platform for illegal proscribed paramilitary organisation representatives and apologists to air their extreme views which are not representative of public opinion.

For example, on 3rd February 2021, the show provided a platform for an unelected representative of illegal proscribed paramilitary organisations to threaten violence relating to the NI Protocol. This is highly irresponsible and risks inflaming tensions which could lead to violence. However this is not a unique example and the show regularly platforms unelected representatives and apologists for paramilitary organisations.

By cancelling the show, BBC NI can restore some integrity to its broadcasting and provide a public service rather than a public disservice.

Cancel The Nolan Show

Via The Transcripts The Nolan Show is conducting its series entitled the Nolan Manifesto Interviews on BBC Radio Ulster. Today Stephen is alone questioning the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) in absentia as the party did not send a delegate to participate in the series. Listen to Stephen as you read along to enjoy the full experience. Please Note: The following transcript is only the first twenty or so minutes of today’s programme. 

Stephen Nolan BBC Radio Ulster 9 December 2019
BBC Radio Ulster
The Nolan Show

Stephen: On the programme today the Nolan Manifesto Interviews continue. Today it’s the turn of the DUP . Do they deserve your vote? (Stephen solicits listener calls.)
Stephen Nolan
Good Morning! And thanks for joining us today. Every single party who were asked to have their manifestos scrutinised by The Nolan Show have agreed a date with the BBC except one, the DUP. We’ve been talking to them for many weeks for an interview. They kept telling us they were looking at it and yet here we are – no DUP.

We think it’s really important this morning to scrutinise their manifesto whether they are here or not. Now you, through your licence fee, pay people like me to ask these politicians questions, to hold them to account so that they can’t create laws and policies that affect you without them having to justify it. That’s why this is important. Usually political parties fight for an opportunity to be on the BBC to sell their manifesto to the public. This morning the DUP could have been reaching out to well over a hundred thousand of you in this time slot appealing to you for your vote. They’ve chosen not to do that. There are so many questions I have for the DUP on your behalf and do you know what? I’m going to ask them whether they’re here or not.

Let’s start with the ‘Big Picture’ stuff: Nigel Dodds says in the DUP Manifesto that in the last Westminster election you gave them the strongest ever team of DUP MPs and he wants you to trust him and his party again to, in his words, ‘protect Northern Ireland’s place in the UK’. I want to ask the DUP if they’re not deeply embarrassed that with all of the influence they had Boris Johnson intends to put, in their words, ‘a border down the Irish Sea’. Are you, the DUP, not embarrassed by that? And is it true, as other Unionists claim, that your decision to compromise on a regulatory border down the Irish Sea was seen as a green light by Boris Johnson’s government to treat Northern Ireland so differently from the rest of the UK?

Was that a cock-up by you? Were you bluffed by the Prime Minister? Were you weak? Did the DUP allow its pursuit of Brexit to endanger the Union? So many questions and no one here to answer them. There are Loyalists and Unionists throughout the country now holding rallies as they think the union is under threat because of Boris Johnson’s deal. Nigel Dodds attended one of those rallies at the weekend.

Audio: Nigel Dodds speaking at rally.

Stephen: That’s Mr. Dodds at the weekend. But I wanted to ask the DUP if they now feel it was an error of judgement to have Boris Johnson as their guest of honour at their party conference just over a year ago? Listen to this!

Audio: Boris Johnson being introduced at the DUP annual party conference.

Stephen: Mr. Johnson did make the DUP a promise at this conference.

Audio: Prime Minister Boris Johnson addresses DUP annual party conference and promises his Brexit withdrawal agreement will not damage the union with regulatory and customs arrangements for Northern Ireland.

Stephen: And then he broke that promise. Here’s another question for the DUP: Why are you even contemplating still supporting a Johnson-led government? Where did the DUP’s own promises go when they told you, all of you – the electorate – that they would use their leverage and influence in the best interests of Northern Ireland? When, as they boasted time and time again, they were the ones holding the balance of power. Where did that get them?

Let’s ask the DUP another question whether they’re here or not. The DUP is saying they will never support a Corbyn government. Now given what some Unionists are describing as the ‘Betrayal Act’ why has the DUP not ruled out working with Boris Johnson? They won’t work with Corbyn. Why will they work with a Prime Minister who, in their own words, is endangering the union with this deal? If Johnson’s deal threatens the very essence of the United Kingdom why is the DUP still prepared to work with him?

Radio Silence

Stephen: All you get is silence.

Nigel Dodds says in his manifesto that he seeks a mandate to send a message that there can be no borders in the Irish Sea. Your own hand-written signature is under that statement, Nigel.

How can you and how can your party say this when it was you who agreed to Boris Johnson’s original offer to the EU (European Union) which meant Northern Ireland diverging from the UK on some regulations – yes, it was only with a unionist veto – but this was something a former advisor to the Prime Minister, Theresa May, said: Give Boris Johnson more leeway in his negotiations with the EU.

Why didn’t you rule out any prospect of any border, consent or not? Did Boris Johnson see that as a chink of light and exploit it? Does the DUP regret this now? Was this a fundamental failure in negotiations by the DUP?

All of these questions and you’re not here to answer them to people contemplating voting for you.
LucidTalk on Twitter
Here’s another question: Is the DUP’s pursuit of Brexit actually endangering the union?

A LucidTalk poll released just last week suggests a majority of Unionists are now pro-Remain. Once again, I’d love to ask questions around that but the DUP can’t find anybody to answer this morning. They’ve left us with silence.

Radio Silence

Stephen: Let’s turn now to what Arlene Foster says in the DUP Manifesto: Under her own hand-written signature she talks about ‘next generation Unionism’. I wonder does that generation include gay people in Northern Ireland? No doubt the DUP’s listening this morning. Are you prepared to apologise for some of the words your party has used in the past towards the gay community? Because politicians are being held to account during this election – they are answering questions about their past words. The Prime Minister, for example, is being held to task for words he used about single mothers many, many years ago. He’s being challenged about articles he wrote when he was a journalist. Jeremy Corbyn – he’s being challenged about his refusal, for example, in 2015 to specifically condemn IRA violence when I asked him if he would. But let’s look at the DUP. Your manifesto talks about reaching out to as wide a base as possible. To do that – do you owe an apology to the gay community for your words of the past?

Radio Silence

Stephen: Would any current member of your party ever again be allowed to say that homosexuality is nauseating? That these sorts of relationships are immoral, offensive and obnoxious? That a hurricane was punishment from God because of a Gay Pride parade? Would they ever again be allowed to say that gay people were, quote, ‘perverts’? That the filthy practice of sodomy has resulted in the great continent of Africa being riddled with AIDS?

Is there any apology needed for those words of the past?

You say in your manifesto you want to protect animals better – might you be minded to protect gay people better? And should they vote for you this time round?

Radio Silence

Stephen: Let’s stay on that section of your manifesto that talks about next generation Unionism: Might the next generation of Unionism be less interested in the colour of a flag? Yeah, Orange and Green – it does attract votes in Northern Ireland – but is the DUP worried that the next generation this time will vote less on Orange and Green but prioritise health and education and the economy? Can the DUP convince this next generation that they are the best in class with these policy areas?

Now, the detail of any manifesto is important. Every other political party in Northern Ireland has consented to me scrutinising the detail within their promises – except the DUP. Let’s look at some of the detail: Figures and amounts matter – we saw how important that was with RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive). The DUP say in their manifesto that they secured two hundred million for health transformation which will help, for example, with waiting lists. But what I wanted to really ask the DUP on behalf of all of you this morning: How high up their priority list does health actually come? Is it more important than blocking an Irish Language Act?

Radio Silence

Stephen: If allowing Sinn Féin to have an Irish Language Act brought about a devolved government again so that local ministers could tackle waiting lists why is that not a price worth paying?

Radio Silence

Stephen: The DUP is the biggest party in this country. Do they take any responsibility for over three hundred thousand people now waiting to see a consultant? That’s up twenty-three and a half thousand on the previous year. Those are real people in Northern Ireland. It doesn’t matter whether they’re Unionist or Nationalist – it doesn’t matter what the are – over three hundred thousand people now waiting on that list. Northern Ireland’s figures are the worst in the whole of the UK. Does the DUP take any responsibility for that?

A hundred and thirty-three thousand patients are waiting more than a year for hospital treatment yet in England and Wales, with a population more than thirty times larger than that of Northern Ireland, the figure is less than six thousand. Think about that – six thousand – with a far bigger population – against a hundred and thirty-three thousand patients! Are you in any way responsible for this in the DUP? Yes, you can say you’ve been out of government for years – but maybe if you could get back into government or you had got back into government you could have been helping some of the patients on that waiting list. Are you responsible for any of this?

Radio Silence

Stephen: And then, of course, there was the DUP’s decision to break pay parity for our hard-working NHS (National Health Service) staff. Here’s the reality: It was a DUP Health Minister who did this in 2014. I want to spell out to you what that means:

Up until then NHS employees were paid equally across the UK. Under the DUP’s ministerial watch that was broken. So my question to you, the DUP, this morning: Why did you think it was acceptable to pay our nurses, our hospital cleaners, our porters less than those in England? Do you regret that? How is the DUP standing on picket lines supporting workers asking for pay parity when it was the DUP who decided to pay them differently in the first place? Should health workers pay you back in the DUP for breaking that parity by refusing to vote for you? What would you say to them this morning? It leads me to the following question: Why should NHS staff trust the DUP over pay? Can they reach out and convince them to do so?

There are loads of articulate, seasoned politicians who could have come in here this morning and answered these questions – possibly quite well – possibly attracting you to vote for them – instead my questions on your behalf are met with silence.

Radio Silence

Stephen: I have so many questions for the DUP. They say in their manifesto: Let’s make the Assembly better. They say any new Assembly will have to undergo far-reaching reform to deliver more and deliver better – would that include a change in the rules so that no Speaker could continue to get paid while off work for over a thousand days? Think about that. There’s not enough money to give our nurses a pay rise but the outgoing Assembly Speaker, the DUP MLA Robin Newton, has earned tens of thousands of pounds with no job to go to. Millions have also been spent on MLA salaries. Does that sound right to you, DUP?

Radio Silence

Stephen: There are many figures published in this manifesto where you talk about some of your promises around family budgets. Can the DUP, with any authority, talk to any citizen in this country about a family budget when we’ve all seen how you handled our money with RHI? Have you learned the lessons from RHI yet?

Let me remind people how Arlene Foster replied to Sir Patrick Coghlin’s RHI Inquiry when she was asked if she had read the legislation which she brought before the Assembly in her name.

Audio: Arlene Foster being questioned at the RHI Inquiry.

Stephen: Does the DUP give a promise to voters that they will never do this again? Propose legislation that they haven’t fully read. Can people trust you?

Radio Silence

Stephen: I have questions on behalf of our rural community who may be contemplating voting for the DUP. The party manifesto says the following:

The primary custodians of our rural areas are the farming community. Their commitment and strength of connection to their farms and businesses are vital to sustaining rural communities producing high quality food and improving our environment.

During the last Parliament, through our Confidence and Supply Agreement, the DUP write, we secured commitments to the same level of direct support and cash as currently received through the common agricultural policy. That direct support for farmers – when will that money run out? How can a farmer invest long term? Was Brexit worth this? Should those farmers vote for you?

Radio Silence

Stephen: I have questions for the DUP about welfare reform. Many DUP voters will be worried about their benefits being cut because of welfare reform. Now you, the DUP, were one of the parties who voted in support of allowing Westminster to intervene and legislate for welfare reform in Northern Ireland. Was that the right decision?

If any of your voters are going to suffer and have their benefits cut if the mitigations stop early next year should they vote for you? The DUP say in their manifesto they were the first advocates of a mitigation package for welfare. It is mitigation against cuts the DUP helped bring about, some people would argue, by allowing Westminster to intervene in the first place. Is the DUP embarrassed now about this?

Radio Silence

Stephen: I’m not sure that silence on The Nolan Show helps any citizen in this country if they’re looking for further answers. To be fair to the DUP they have given answers to other BBC Northern Ireland broadcasters and I would encourage you, as a citizen of this country, to find those interviews and answers on the BBC Northern Ireland News website, on BBC Newslines pages and the DUP are scheduled to appear on Talkback tomorrow and on Spotlight on Tuesday night.
Photo: The Nolan Show
  
But let me ask the DUP one final question this morning about their refusal to speak with me. They’ve told this programme recently that there is no Nolan Show boycott. Yeah, there’ve been a handful of answers since RHI but very, very few. Listen to what Sammy Wilson told Talkback in June of this year.

Audio: Sammy Wilson, appearing on BBC Talkback, mentions the DUP’s decision not to appear on The Nolan Show and says that not appearing on Stephen’s show is ‘the best way of hurting him’.

Stephen: I would just say to the DUP: If you’re now saying there’s no Nolan Show boycott then why aren’t you here this morning? If it’s even possible for some people to think that you cannot face-up to me how have you got what it takes to face down Boris Johnson or Mary Lou McDonald when your voters really need you to?

I hope I’ve been able to bring you some of the questions this morning that I would have asked the DUP and I deeply regret that I couldn’t convince them to answer them on this programme.

(Stephen solicits listener call-ins and advises listeners to visit the BBC’s Northern Ireland News website and its Election 2019 page and to search online for the DUP’s Manifesto.)

Note: The Nolan Show continues with Stephen hosting BBC Northern Ireland Political Editor, Mark Devenport, and BBC Northern Ireland Economics and Business Editor, John Campbell, who provide analysis of the DUP past performance and future strategies in Northern Ireland in relation to their manifesto. Keep listening!


The Transcripts, Of Interest to the Irish Republican Community.

Follow The Transcripts on Twitter @RFETranscripts 

Radio Silence


Via The Transcripts Stephen Nolan speaks to Unionist activist and author, Jamie Bryson, via telephone from Belfast, about Unionist and Loyalist reaction to the election results. Belfast freelance correspondent and commentator, Amanda Ferguson, and News Letter Deputy Editor, Ben Lowry, are in studio with Stephen.  The interview took place immediately after December's UK general election. 

Jamie Bryson - The Nolan Show 
13 December 2019
BBC Radio Ulster
The Nolan Show

Stephen: Jamie Bryson, the Loyalist, is joining us now. Mr. Bryson, Jamie, Good Morning! to you.

Jamie: Morning, Stephen.

Stephen: Good Morning to you. I know you were sending out texts and tweets to a range of journalists last night taking about ‘resistance’- there will be resistance – what did you mean by that?

Jamie Bryson
Photo: The Belfast Telegraph
Jamie: Well I simply mean that the position in terms of Unionism and Loyalism has changed as of today. You know, nobody is waking up today and deciding: Well, that’s good. We’re heading off into a economic united Ireland and that’s going to be tolerated. We said all along, you know I spoke in the Ulster Hall last week and said very clearly no matter what happens on the 13th of December we will not be tolerating an economic united Ireland and it’s for Unionism and Loyalism now to sit down, strategically assess where we are and see where we go from here.

Stephen: Where do you think we’re at?

Jamie: Well, it’s clearly been a very difficult night for Unionism. I think there was, in some parts of Belfast, a significant surge in the Loyalist vote but unfortunately that was offset by what appears to be many moderate Unionists defecting to Alliance. I think that’s probably for other people within Unionism to analyse – I’m probably not the man to offer analysis on that because I don’t particularly understand that section of Unionism but look, it’s been a very disappointing night for Unionism especially in North and South Belfast but we need to sit down and see where we are but actually, I think there was, if there’s one small silver lining and that’s there’s quite a lot of hard Brexiteers within the Conservative Party who voted with a heavy heart for Boris Johnson’s Betrayal Act the last time because they felt it was their only option…

Stephen: …Boris Johnson is in power now, Jamie.
Jamie: Well if you’d let me finish: To get us through the main Parliament – I think there will be many people now, that it’s now a Brexit Parliament, and I would hope that there would be many people who may look at the Betrayal Act and may now see that they have more opportunity to change that and make the necessary changes and look, there’s not a massive amount of changes required in order to make it acceptable to the Unionist community.

Amanda Ferguson
Photo: Sky News
Amanda: I think it’s a difficult night of the DUP’s (Democratic Unionist Party) making, though. I think that is something that has to be acknowledged and I think that the toxicity around those banners that appeared in Belfast North and Belfast South have contributed to that and also the online post that Máiría Cahill put out, it was used by someone, we don’t know who, to make it into a leaflet and post it through letter boxes and that was actually something that a life-long Alliance supporter said to me tipped them over the edge. They said that online poster’s been taken (inaudible) daily, put through the letter box and it’s not fair and that swayed their vote. So I think whoever was behind those – if they felt they were doing the DUP a favour – made a massive mistake.

Stephen: Do you think the banner campaign backfired, Jamie Bryson?

Jamie: No, I don’t. I think many Unionist areas, many Loyalist areas were galvanised. I don’t think at all, we’ve had a massive swing, massive…

Stephen: …They weren’t galvanised in North Belfast or South Belfast, were they?

Jamie: Well, actually some boxes in Loyalist areas traditionally very low were up seventy percent so actually they were galvanised in South Belfast but the difficulty that Unionism and Loyalism faces is there’s a vast, moderate section of Unionist which has been conditioned by twenty years of the peace process which has normalised and legitimised the IRA and criminalised and dehumanised Loyalism (crosstalk)…

Amanda: …Jamie, you can’t just keep screaming ‘IRA!’ at absolutely everything. You know, it’s acceptable to be a Republican as it’s acceptable to be a Unionist and …

Jamie: …Are you a Republican now?

Amanda: …the quicker you get on board with that the better.

Jamie: …Are you a Republican? Get on board with what, Amanda?

Amanda: … get on board with the idea that British and Irish identity in Northern Ireland is equal. That’s it. (crosstalk) Sin é – as we say.

Jamie: Oh, you’re speaking in Irish now? Hardly a shock to you. No, let…

Amanda: …what, did you get a smell of mass off me, Jamie, that you don’t like?

Jamie: Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom…

Amanda: …Yes, it is. That’s right – the Good Friday Agreement says so – yep!

Jamie: You may not like that, obviously, as a Nationalist, and somebody who’s obviously quite clearly in favour of the North Belfast candidate, John Finucane. However, there’s many people within Northern Ireland and I would still say a majority of people in Northern Ireland who are British citizens and… (crosstalk)

Stephen: … Let me let Amanda respond to that.

Jamie: You need to get on board with that.

Amanda: I just. I – You know, the Good Friday Agreement’s there – it’s in black and white. Northern Ireland’s part of the United Kingdom until the people will decide any differently and the way that that will change, and in my view it will change, will be through a border poll. And the quicker that people within all of our communities realise that it’s possible to accommodate British and Irish identity on an equal basis the better it will be for everybody. Instead of putting fear into people that, you know, expressions of Irish identity are a detriment or are destroying Unionist culture – it’s just not true.

Stephen: What’s next do you think now, Jamie? Boris Johnson – he’s meeting the Queen, he’s seeking permission to form his government, he’ll have a majority – what is it? – of seventy-eight. He can essentially do what he wants. He can push through his Brexit deal. There can be that border, so-called border, down the Irish Sea. What can Loyalists do about it even if they wanted to?

Jamie: Well, we’ll see. We’ll see what happens and I think there’ll be a sliding scale of viewpoints in relation to that. I don’t have a definitive answer for you. I don’t know – there’ll be many people within Unionism and Loyalism who will have many different views and, as I said, there’ll be a sliding scale of viewpoints but I think we need to sit down, take the weekend, assess where we are and see what the next steps are but look – nobody is waking up today and all of a sudden deciding that we’re now happy with the deal and we’re now going to meekly go into an economic united Ireland.

Stephen: You said though, last night, you said some people may conclude that the political process has been exhausted and that would and you said…

Jamie: …(inaudible)…

Stephen: …And you said that would inevitably mean that the opposition to the Betrayal Act would move into a different phase. Given your connections…

Jamie: …it very well may, it very well may (inaudible)…

Stephen: …given your connections to the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force) are you hinting at violence?

Jamie: No, I’m not. What I’m saying is there will be many different viewpoints and there’ll be a sliding scale of viewpoints and as I say, I don’t have a definitive answer for you of what the next stage of resistance to the Betrayal Act looks like and as I said there’ll be many people that’ll take that view (inaudible)…

Stephen: …Well, what form could resistance take…

Jamie: …Well, I think…

Stephen: …given the fact that there’s been a democratic process now and that’s it?

Jamie: Well there was a democratic, there was a democratic vote in 2016 to leave the European Union (EU) and people done all in their power throughout the year to try and block that and I would speculate they will still try and block that so it’s all well and good that people preaching about democracy this morning are the same people who tried to overturn democracy for three years. Look as I said, there’ll be no knee-jerk reaction – Unionism and Loyalism will sit down and assess where they are and see where we go next and, as I said, there’ll be many different viewpoints – I certainly would not be advocating violence. I don’t think any sensible person wants to see violence but there’s going to have to be opposition to this deal – I hope that wouldn’t be violent opposition – but there will be opposition to it and Loyalism is not going to accept an economic united Ireland and it would actually be in breach of the Belfast Agreement…

Stephen: …They would have to accept…

Jamie: …(inaudible)…

Stephen: … They would have to accept…

Jamie: …(inaudible)…

Stephen: …They would have to accept what the Prime Minister wants to do if he has the support of Parliament – that’s how democracy works! So when you talk about an ‘opposition’ to an economic united Ireland if you’re saying out loud that you’re not trying to incite anybody into violence then what type of opposition could there possibly be bar a general election where people look at Boris Johnson’s deal and the majority of the people in the United Kingdom, which you hold so precious, back him?

Jamie: Well look, as we said, Loyalism will sit down. There’ll be many different minds. Many different views. So there isn’t a – you know, as I stand here this morning I can’t come on and tell you: This is the consensus, this is the viewpoint, because I don’t particularly know that and as I said people will look at where we are, what form of opposition there should be to the deal, what options are on the table and I think all constitutional, legal options, you know, have to be exhausted. That’ll mean legal challenges, absolutely, to the Betrayal Act because it does breach Strand One (5, d) of the Belfast Agreement in my view, that may, naturally, also involve lobbying Conservative MPs to try and get changes to the deal and doing all that can be possible. There’s a long way to go in this and I don’t think anybody should be talking up knee-jerk reactions but I think the bottom line is this: Unionism and Loyalism is united in opposition to this deal and will not be tolerating it and if this deal goes through the Belfast Agreement is dead because a key tenet of the Belfast Agreement, the Strand One (5,d), that key decision have to be made on a cross-community basis – this deal does away with that so therefore I can’t see how Unionism could go back and implement the structures of the Belfast Agreement (inaudible) (crosstalk)

Stephen: Okay. Amanda?

Amanda: Well, that’s an unusual analysis of the Good Friday Agreement but whatever. Boris Johnson is supposed…

Jamie: …No Amanda, sorry – hold on…

Stephen: Hold on, hold on, Jamie. Hold on.

Amanda: Hold on, Jamie. Boris Johnson is supposed to be a Unionist and clearly the Unionist community doesn’t believe that he is serving their best interest so that has to be tackled democratically. What we don’t want to see is young Loyalists ending up with criminal records like we did over the flag protests, wasting their lives, going to jail – for what? And I think that what you will see happening is – Sammy Wilson even said it last night when he was asked: Do we take to the streets over this? And he said: No, this is a political fight. And that is the message that has to be driven home time and again…

Stephen: …That’s not what’s Bryson is saying. Bryson’s saying the political process, according to some, has been exhausted.

Amanda: Well you know, that’s his opinion on it but democracy and the ballot box is the only way through this and people like Jamie have consistently gone on and on and on about the IRA campaign and screamed everything about the IRA but yet he skirts around the issue of violence whenever it comes to like veiled threats of like we don’t know what’s going to happen next. It’s a nonsense….

Jamie: …Are you willing to condemn the IRA, Amanda?…

Amanda: …You’re a clown, Jamie.

Jamie: Amanda, are you willing to condemn the IRA campaign?

Amanda: Jamie, I’m not going to have a conversation with you where you get to dictate to me. People know that I’m a peace supporting person.

Jamie: …Amanda, Amanda, are you willing to condemn the IRA?

Stephen: Do you want to respond to him?

Amanda: Of course. Any violence from any quarter…

Stephen: …There’s your response. There’s your response…

Amanda: …whether it be Loyalist violence, Republican violence or state violence is a nonsense.

Stephen: I think, Ben Lowry, this programme does not beat about the bush: Given Jamie Bryson’s clear links with the UVF when he is talking about a political process being exhausted – let’s just talk about that elephant in the room on this programme, you know. Is there any possibility of any paramilitary organisation in Northern Ireland associated with the Loyalists’ side of it thinking to themselves that that would be their opposition? And who are they going take on?
Ben Lowry
Photo: The News Letter
Ben: Well, I’ve no doubt that there would be people who would think that way. What I wouldn’t be expert enough in is how influential they are within those organisations and what clout those organisations have. But let’s look at a spectrum of things here in response to this if you look at it dispassionately: First of all as we are all agreed, the political option is now closed for five years in any event – this is going to be railroaded through. The simple reality is that virtually nobody, and this is – you know, even I was a bit cynical about it but I’ve learned something as far as the process – virtually nobody in England and virtually nobody in the Conservative party – and I interviewed Conservatism and wondered if they had any feeling for the union and, of course, these members at the Tory conference in Manchester said they did – but when it came to the crunch virtually none do, virtually none of the MPs do. So that’s the political option clause.

Then you move onto something that isn’t violent and protest, civic disobedience. Well, that would work if the business were up for it. If all the businesses said: Right, we’re just not doing this. We’re not paying tariffs. We’re not doing paperwork – there was mass disobedience – the poll tax was brought down by that kind of thing, remember. When the poll tax was – people just wouldn’t pay it even in The Shires and respectable places – they wouldn’t pay it. So that would probably work but that’s not going to happen…

Stephen: …There were riots over the poll tax, Ben, if I remember.

Ben: Yeah, yeah and yeah and Stage Two and this can morph into Stage Three which is violence. And then imagine that there was determined violence – I don’t think that there’s, I don’t even think are organisations that are like this but an IRA type of violence – what I then I think you would see the British state would crush that in a way that it was never prepared to do – it was always nervous about crushing Republican violence – I think that that’s what would happen in that scenario. So to be honest, the options for Unionists are not good with this economic border in the Irish Sea and I suspect what is going to have to happen is people hope that it, in some way, secures the union – let’s talk about the best of both worlds, that it’s relatively seamless – it’s just not a good outcome for Unionists – there’s no way round that. I mean, often still, months into this, I’m thinking – having known for years actually since 2017 a border of some form in the Irish Sea was likely – I’m still thinking moments of incredulity where I think this is actually about to happen. It’s a political disaster and I’m not seeing any ways of stopping it.

Stephen: Okay. Alright. We need to let you both get to bed certainly you, Ben – you’re exhausted. Thank you very much, indeed. Ben, Amanda – thank you.


The Transcripts, Of Interest to the Irish Republican Community.

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It’s Just Not A Good Outcome For Unionists

Sean Bresnahan is a member of the 1916 Societies and proponent of the Éire Nua policy. As a regular contributor to The Pensive Quill he writes here in an individual capacity.

Having been away over St. Patrick's, only getting a 'catch up' on the TV planner last night, it was with a mix of delight and disgust that I watched last week's episode of The Stephen Nolan Show.

Censorship, Éire Nua And A New Low For Nolan

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