tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post8821027645054632717..comments2024-03-28T17:44:07.653+00:00Comments on TPQ: Taking Issue With PreventAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-1288073201491549332016-03-24T12:31:03.366+00:002016-03-24T12:31:03.366+00:00This is a snoopers charter that the likes of Edwar...This is a snoopers charter that the likes of Edward Snowden warned us about. Giving succour to terrorists is not what this document is about but to legitamise the role of Govt in keeping an ear and eye out for those who may be swayed to terrorism- how about the state sponsored terrorism and the role of the US/Uk and its allies, where is that document to sign, or keep an eye on. If we are to be Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04590961712558588182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-20158693434122533952015-11-05T23:00:28.349+00:002015-11-05T23:00:28.349+00:00Thought I would revisit this since I have read abo...Thought I would revisit this since I have read about a Paramilitary member from a Republican background being described as being <a href="http://www.u.tv/News/2015/11/05/Concern-teen-bomb-plot-accused-was-radicalised-48328" rel="nofollow">'Radicalised'</a>. <br /><br />It won't be long until <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/29/Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-22479209206699864402015-07-22T11:57:25.056+01:002015-07-22T11:57:25.056+01:00Simon
Like DaithiD I expect 'heated' give...Simon<br /><br />Like DaithiD I expect 'heated' given the subject matter. If you take any of the other factors you can think of then it will also be couched in Islamic jargon and pronouncements -which makes them concomitant issues; none of these factors are ever cited as being primary standalone or detached from Islam (Including any war against the USA or Brits). Correspondingly, Islam Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-27966618934139717942015-07-22T09:14:52.134+01:002015-07-22T09:14:52.134+01:00DaithiD, I am afraid I will have to end it here. ...DaithiD, I am afraid I will have to end it here. My problem with Prevent is that it will inevitably alienate people which will have an adverse effect on the overall situation. <br /><br />My position on the Islamist groups is that the other factors are not merely concomitant, not dependent on Islam and are in fact more powerful drivers.<br /><br />My position on people leaving the UK to join Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-18408536170956291782015-07-22T08:31:06.633+01:002015-07-22T08:31:06.633+01:00Simon, given the topic in question, it really shou...Simon, given the topic in question, it really should provoke outrage and hate from either side. If you accept Islam may play a part (however small) in the motivation of groups like ISIS, i dont know why you started off with warnings of demonisation and witchunts. Surely an agreeable stategy would cover all these factors, PREVENT doesnt do this.Look what happened to a book like the Turner Diaries DaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9105032747871840272015-07-21T22:53:57.096+01:002015-07-21T22:53:57.096+01:00Diplockcourts, Sorry dude if it got a little heat...Diplockcourts, Sorry dude if it got a little heated there.<br /><br />I am happy enough with the outcome of the original debate. I couldn't get my head round how you and DaithiD looked at other factors as being only concomitant ones and therefore really to do with Islam and not stand-alone factors.<br /><br />Since we agree that different factors are at work, but disagree on the levels of Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-57208192999548347222015-07-21T15:12:12.368+01:002015-07-21T15:12:12.368+01:00Simon
You are such a bullshitter. Decriminalizat...Simon<br /><br />You are such a bullshitter. Decriminalization does little to nothing to prevent, deter or inhibit the Islamic belief that they should be killed. What I did say is that it has generally been done because of international treaties and obligations and not really for the welfare of gays which are given no protection from attack or discrimination. I note you raise the LBGT issue whenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24598812009012330232015-07-21T10:02:16.491+01:002015-07-21T10:02:16.491+01:00Diplockcourts, As I said I have limited time to de...Diplockcourts, As I said I have limited time to debate. Certainly even more limited when debating with someone who is so blinkered as to believe legalising homosexuality in Muslim majority countries hasn't benefited any gays. In fact you seem to think it has made their situation worse. What about those LGBT people who would otherwise have been locked up? You don't think it has helped any Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91804577454445347632015-07-20T22:30:03.738+01:002015-07-20T22:30:03.738+01:00Simon
"Have we agreed that with Islamic Terr...Simon<br /><br />"Have we agreed that with Islamic Terrorism there are other factors driving it as well as religion?"<br /><br />Had you been reading what I write then you'd know that from my first post in and consistently throughout I have always acknowledged other factors: "These may well be contributory factors but religion is the 'primary" <br /><br />"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-31058843078362984602015-07-20T10:11:26.672+01:002015-07-20T10:11:26.672+01:00Diplockcourts, "When I argue that it is the...Diplockcourts, "When I argue that it is the primary/main reason then clearly I am not defining their actions to religion being the "sole cause"."<br /><br />Have we agreed that with Islamic Terrorism there are other factors driving it as well as religion? That was my original point. I am happy if we agree that there are different factors but that they have different degrees Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11398589268617385592015-07-20T00:43:59.098+01:002015-07-20T00:43:59.098+01:00DaithiD, "How can you claim Nationalism plays...DaithiD, "How can you claim Nationalism plays a part ?" A lot of the time with the Islamic World fundamentalist religion and nationalism reinforce one another. For example in Iraq nationalist elements of the Ba'ath Party formed part of the terrorist campaign against the USA.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-22842147190253402742015-07-20T00:29:25.152+01:002015-07-20T00:29:25.152+01:00Simon
"I pointed out that many Muslim majori...Simon<br /><br />"I pointed out that many Muslim majority countries have decriminalised homosexuality to disprove Diplockcourts position that "Moderate" Muslims want LGBT people murdered."<br /><br />However, you failed to 'disprove' me -decriminalization is a meaningless exercise because it was done for other reasons than to protect the welfare or human dignity gays.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-86203371033593473492015-07-20T00:23:21.585+01:002015-07-20T00:23:21.585+01:00Simon, what is a moderate? Someone that doesnt fol...Simon, what is a moderate? Someone that doesnt follow their faith as detailed by centuries of practice and supported by scripture? The question that reveals moderates true intention is : In a perfect Sharia state, is the killing of homosexuals permissible? They cannot answer "no", because that would be supplanting Allah's law with manmade law.<br /><br />If some Muslim countries DaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-70968905887180192852015-07-19T23:52:29.305+01:002015-07-19T23:52:29.305+01:00Diplockcourts, "When I argue that it is the p...Diplockcourts, "When I argue that it is the primary/main reason then clearly I am not defining their actions to religion being the "sole cause"."<br /><br />So we are in agreement to a certain extent? We agree that there are different factors. We just don't agree on their varying levels of influence. I am happy enough with that.<br /><br /><br />"It proves your claim Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-49269033765343520152015-07-19T23:22:05.152+01:002015-07-19T23:22:05.152+01:00DaithiD, "Im going to ignore the LGBT claims,...DaithiD, "Im going to ignore the LGBT claims, I think Peter Tatchell gets this issue, called Islamophobic naturally."<br /><br />Muslims tend to be less tolerant towards LGBT people than others in that most think homosexuality is wrong. But to say that is the same as wanting them all murdered is a different thing entirely. <br /><br />There are gay Muslims don't forget. Just like Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-83302566489181323672015-07-19T23:12:08.794+01:002015-07-19T23:12:08.794+01:00Simon
"Religion is unlikely to be the sole c...Simon<br /><br />"Religion is unlikely to be the sole cause"<br /><br />When I argue that it is the primary/main reason then clearly I am not defining their actions to religion being the "sole cause".<br /><br />I am aware of all the other things you mention -but when someone kills and dies for religion then that is of a higher order which sorta trumps all other material/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43888668417279339822015-07-19T22:28:06.217+01:002015-07-19T22:28:06.217+01:00Simon, you cant judge a religion just by the actio...Simon, you cant judge a religion just by the actions of adherents. You dont know how pious some of them are or are not. It is more accurate to judge the faith by its scriptures rather than the behaviour of its followers. If ISIS were anomalies to Islam, peversions of it as Cameron and Obama would claim, it could easily be refuted by its scholars.Even that is deceptive,this is an example of DaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-51428373289848888262015-07-19T21:00:48.222+01:002015-07-19T21:00:48.222+01:00Jihadists have also said the reasons for the terro...Jihadists have also said the reasons for the terrorism are not just religious. They have said the West attacking the Middle East is justification also.<br /><br />When fighting a country viewed as an Anti-Islamic aggressor like the USA and claiming you're fighting for your co-religionists and fighting for that religion itself it adds a legitimacy to your terror. When the enemy is perceived Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-2196548313553979512015-07-19T15:36:31.296+01:002015-07-19T15:36:31.296+01:00Simon
"I have lost count of the number of ti...Simon<br /><br />"I have lost count of the number of times I have explained myself. It's like talking to a brick wall."<br /><br />It was never lost on me when you used a word formulation something like 'Islam is not the 'main' reason' -that implies that you accepted that it is somewhere in the mix? Therefore, I understood our disagreement to be over Islam's &#Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-88116101912798235842015-07-19T12:27:29.466+01:002015-07-19T12:27:29.466+01:00Correct Simon, I actually regretted writing the &q...Correct Simon, I actually regretted writing the "nothing to do with" part when I read it back, its not your position. My position is it is only to do with Islam in the way it manifests presently, so reflexively wrote yours was diametrically opposed.But for your arguement to be true, Islams atrocities need to have started in response to Western interference. If it did not, it would just DaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-19213912209207937922015-07-19T11:39:19.022+01:002015-07-19T11:39:19.022+01:00DaithiD, "and it seems that because of your ...DaithiD, "and it seems that because of your certainty it is nothing to do with Islam," <br /><br />Diplockcourts, "Denying that people are being slaughtered in the name of Islam is its own injustice."<br /><br />It is impossible talking to you both. I haven't said it has nothing to do with Islam. The last time I explained this I noted I explained it for the umpteenth Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-29970348384261746432015-07-19T09:51:32.671+01:002015-07-19T09:51:32.671+01:00How come the terrorism has only relatively recentl...<i>How come the terrorism has only relatively recently been as predominant and virulent as we see today?"</i><br /><br />Simon I do appreciate the time you have taken to argue your points, but it seems to be going round in circles, and it seems that because of your certainty it is nothing to do with Islam, you have never actually considered the opposite argument, and sought it out.Its calledDaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-41219870604212264032015-07-18T22:57:53.445+01:002015-07-18T22:57:53.445+01:00Simon
Re your post at 9:18 PM, July 18, 2015
You...Simon<br /><br />Re your post at 9:18 PM, July 18, 2015<br /><br />You are not saying anything different than what I have said already. I would have the same concerns:"More oppressive new laws are not good." I came into this issue taking objection with the petitioners because reference to the ample evidence of the link between Islam and atrocities needed to be pointed out. Denying Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91525423997576927112015-07-18T22:12:10.333+01:002015-07-18T22:12:10.333+01:00Diplockcourts,
Why do they kill in the name of Is...Diplockcourts,<br /><br />Why do they kill in the name of Islam. Do they kill in the name of Islam because of Islam? It seems a very odd cause and effect. Did Islam cause them to terrorise? If it is the cause why didn't it cause it earlier? Islam has been a constant. <br /><br />How come the terrorism has only relatively recently been as predominant and virulent as we see today?<br /><br />Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-80284299940039920862015-07-18T21:18:53.385+01:002015-07-18T21:18:53.385+01:00This legislation aims to curb terrorism and "...This legislation aims to curb terrorism and "non-violent extremism". To stop terrorism in the UK and the support for terrorism. <br /><br />The definition of terrorism used in the legislation comes from the Terrorism Act 2000 (TACT 2000): an action that endangers or causes serious violence to a person/people; causes serious damage to property; or seriously interferes or disrupts an Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.com