tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post1592979377041922187..comments2024-03-29T13:37:11.174+00:00Comments on TPQ: Bonfires And Burning CarsAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-39864316870834570362017-08-16T23:18:00.988+01:002017-08-16T23:18:00.988+01:00The RUC used to actually burn our bonfires too, so...The RUC used to actually burn our bonfires too, so they had less to deal with on the 11th night.<br /><br />Why was Tony Taylor sent back? Was he a pain in the arse to the Shinners?Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-57079256163026185972017-08-14T15:15:51.700+01:002017-08-14T15:15:51.700+01:00DaithiD,
I imagine that Simon is more right on th...DaithiD,<br /><br />I imagine that Simon is more right on the question of communal participation. Bonfires in my view alienate the bulk of people in the community. We need to bear in mind that we live in a world that is more attuned to issues like pollution and the environment. The tolerance towards bonfires is not like it was many decades ago. There may be some comparison to be made between the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59003388033755699782017-08-14T14:22:59.668+01:002017-08-14T14:22:59.668+01:00AM, bonfires at least invites communal participati...AM, bonfires at least invites communal participation, burning someone's car is different. How did you view the anti - immigrant graffiti that was being daubed on private property around the North? Is that anti-state too?DaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-41475315817285951562017-08-13T12:32:13.434+01:002017-08-13T12:32:13.434+01:00Simon,
long or short they could hardly deny the d...Simon,<br /><br />long or short they could hardly deny the direction in which it was going. Anybody thinking politically would not have been bamboozled by the long game and its increments. The speed with which people on the ground changed their position tells us something: in some cases overnight. <br />AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24481962935979606842017-08-13T11:43:12.238+01:002017-08-13T11:43:12.238+01:00AM, "The incremental approach was in my view ...AM, "The incremental approach was in my view more to do with playing the long game against the unionists and not because of the grassroots acting as a brake." My point wasn't that they acted as a brake, in that the grassroots prevented further change, but that the long game mitigated against dissent. A significant and important difference. <br /><br />I don't often interact withSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-20859758482835500972017-08-13T11:09:23.417+01:002017-08-13T11:09:23.417+01:00Simon,
Joe Smith made up a religion in the front ...Simon,<br /><br />Joe Smith made up a religion in the front of people's eyes and they bought into it despite knowing it was a con. They conned themselves that it was not a con. <br /><br />The SF leadership lied, shafted and stroked the grassroots from the outset of the peace process and the grassroots swallowed the lot of it. Every line the grassroots drew in the sand was kicked in their AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-20272739776516152982017-08-13T10:45:41.534+01:002017-08-13T10:45:41.534+01:00AM "Not everything the SF leadership have don...AM "Not everything the SF leadership have done has been terrible. What has been terrible is that they got everything across the line with such ease with nothing resembling political critique being placed in its way."<br /><br />Maybe this was due to war weariness and the fact that an extraordinary amount of trust had built up in the leadership over the previous 25 years or so of Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-74074759923587540472017-08-13T08:04:57.207+01:002017-08-13T08:04:57.207+01:00Simon,
not much to disagree with there.
But eve...Simon,<br /><br />not much to disagree with there. <br /><br />But even a move to the right can be political as much as a move to the left. It is the sheer absence of political critique and analysis by the grassroots when faced with such moves that strips it of politics. How can a political grassroots fail to respond but just go along unthinkingly? If there was a march down the Falls Road AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-70519745552589501692017-08-13T03:03:31.580+01:002017-08-13T03:03:31.580+01:00AM, I think you're correct in saying that Repu...AM, I think you're correct in saying that Republicanism has been stripped of its political content. The GFA was certainly a catalyst for that but a year or probably more before the first ceasefire came Sinn Fein's support for PPPs or Public Private Partnerships on Belfast City Council which was a sign that Sinn Fein were moving to the right. <br /><br />The GFA has primarily done more Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15509484732687107852017-08-12T21:02:09.924+01:002017-08-12T21:02:09.924+01:00Simon,
I took it as a given that you were not try...Simon,<br /><br />I took it as a given that you were not trying to insult DaithiD.<br /><br />Tradition ebbs and flows. There is nothing unique about the same happening with bonfires.<br /><br />There are obvious links between bonfires and the current internment/detention. The date that the fires take place on indicate that and the statement I cited above. Are they an answer to it? They are in AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-46111674615190040192017-08-12T10:16:19.733+01:002017-08-12T10:16:19.733+01:00My comment about agreeing with DaithiD was tongue-...My comment about agreeing with DaithiD was tongue-in-cheek. I meant no offence.<br /><br />It may be tradition driven but it was a tradition that was dying out and is making a resurgence. The resurgence is the problem. Is it linked to the Administrative Detention we have today? Possibly. Is it the answer to Administrative Detention? Definitely not. Does getting wasted beside a bonfire help your Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-4202169285143844132017-08-12T08:25:43.715+01:002017-08-12T08:25:43.715+01:00Simon,
you phrased that comment as if it was alm...Simon, <br /><br />you phrased that comment as if it was almost a crime to be caught agreeing with Daithi D LOL.<br /><br />Bonfires were always a nuisance for most of the community but a form of community barbecue for the young. There was a always a tension around their existence. I never knew anyone who wanted them near their home. <br /><br />I think your comments make the bonfire culture AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-19802208905093041982017-08-11T23:59:48.134+01:002017-08-11T23:59:48.134+01:00AM. I don't know about now but in recent years...AM. I don't know about now but in recent years some bonfires were funded. For example instead of burning tyres and creating carcinogenic fumes for themselves and their neighbours if you burnt a beacon which burns longer and brighter you received funding. <br /><br />This funding would pay for a street party, a dj, bouncy castles etc. <br /><br />That sounds like a decent alternative to me. <Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65378556307111566112017-08-11T22:45:22.263+01:002017-08-11T22:45:22.263+01:00DaithiD,
people rarely cite alienation for their...DaithiD, <br /><br />people rarely cite alienation for their behaviour. But we know enough people have been left behind by the political dispensation and who both imbibe and exhibit anti-state/anti-authority sentiment. The wider bonfire culture can't be reduced to car burning. Nor should we apply the lazy criminal label to those who collect the wood and torch it etc. Not one of the criticismsAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-25633016352539105212017-08-11T20:29:15.437+01:002017-08-11T20:29:15.437+01:00AM, where is the evidence of those people speciica...AM, where is the evidence of those people speciically citing alienation as the reason for burning their communities property? If the car burning is the end result of a pattern of anti-social behaviour, at what stage should society seek to isolate such individuals? Who among us has enough 'stuff' they dont mind donating for destruction to see this rehabilitation experiment through to the DaithiDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03154264514142897745noreply@blogger.com