Thursday, September 20, 2018

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A Morning Thought @ 142


10 comments :

marty said...

Well when you look at the history of religion that ideology is not confined just to the Zionist bastards, how many civilisations have been wiped out by Christians , fuck the lot ..

Henry JoY said...

But, but, but Marty its unlikely, in an evolutionary sociological context, that early primates would have formed cohesive groups much greater than blood-ties dictate, and which led in turn to civilisations, had they not first danced around totem poles ... there's no getting past it, we wouldn't have civilisation without religion of some sort.

Reactionary anti-theism is just as dumb as religious belief.

grouch said...

the early primates - did you know them henry, where they like the late ones ?

David Higgins said...

Henry joy,
That's pretty thought provoking. To clarify to you believe societies wouldn't have prospered without the heirachial system and the external morality that comes with it?

Henry JoY said...

Yes David, religion fosters moral communities which enhances co-operation outside of kinship. Communal moral codes, rather than internal ones, have the advantage of discouraging free-loading more effectively. Religion also addresses social needs of connection for some and psychological needs of meaning and purpose for others. It fulfills needs in a way secular movements often don't. Sacredness binds people together, and then blinds them to the arbitrariness of the practice. It binds and blinds. Of course, political and nationalist fundamentalism, as we know only too well, impacts similarly on it's adherents.

(See Jonathan Haidt's THE RIGHTEOUS MIND: WHY GOOD PEOPLE ARE DIVIDED BY POLITICS AND RELIGION)

Henry JoY said...

On the matter of hierarchies David, I doubt if a functioning society can escape them ... the best that can be achieved, in that regard, is to ensure hierarchies that are based on competence, rather than those gifted merely by power.

David Higgins said...

Henry joy,
The empirical evidence is in line with yours. Since the time of the Sumerians we've had said structures. Do you think the inevitable religious decline will lead to lesser morals or are we grown enough as a society to have human decency without being inspired by adults playing dress up? What's your thoughts on multi culture and the ideological differences between liberal democracies and theological beliefs of muslim immigrants. How do you broach that without being labelled racist or even an anti theist? I know other religions have extremists, i am using Islam as an example

Henry JoY said...

Wooah David,

those are big questions and complex ones too ... which can't, I believe, be answered briefly nor simply.

If I were to make an attempt at a brief answer though, I'd say religion is no longer the opium of the people and yet the heartless word and many of it's soulless conditions still exist. But we have alternative opiates; rampant consumption, sports fandom, celebrity adoration and emulation, distraction through various modern media and so on and so on. And yet more people seem less able to cope. Those that are better resourced tend to have a stronger internal locus of control. Those externally referenced and less resourced, figures suggest, are more prone to anxiety, depression and other forms of dysfunction. Emotionally soothing transitional objects such as lit candles and pushed Rosary beads had their value in their time!

Though there is a Mosque in in Galway, and Galway has become a much more multi-cultural place, these matters you mention don't touch my life out in the sticks in any significant way. For the largest part, I prioritise my peace of mind and take a Zen-like approach; before immigration and before multi-culturalism, carry water and chop wood, after multi-culturalism and after immigration carry water and chop wood.
I hope that doesn't sound too trite but these matters are way above my pay-grade and certainly outside much of my influence ... save but to respect difference, exercise my franchise and cast my vote judiciously, most likely for social democratic candidates and after that happy enough to leave it to the legislators in Dublin and Brussels.
.

David Higgins said...

Henry joy,
Thanks for your response. I am interested in peoples opinions on the future of civilisations without the drama and forewarnings of doom. You come across as well thought out and rational.

Henry JoY said...

David,

who knows what the future might hold or how long each of our own individual futures will be?
Each life is peppered with uncertainty and likely to have its own trials. We can only do our best. And as the safety briefing suggests put the oxygen mask on ourselves first!

Thanks for the exchanges.
10/4 H.J.