Friday, February 23, 2018

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Save The 8th

Helen McClafferty calls to Save the 8th Amendment. 

The Pro-Choice movement is in favor of “significantly widening” access to abortion in Ireland beyond the current legal position. Approximately 45 percent of respondents to a poll taken by Amnesty International were in favor of liberalizing abortion completely, granting women access to abortion “as they choose.”

At the center of this debate is the Eight Amendment to Ireland’s Constitution.

The Eighth Amendment acknowledges a mother’s right to life, but also extends an equal right to the life of the unborn child.

The Government, which two years ago gifted a Tricolor and a copy of the Proclamation to every school in the country has now decided to call a referendum on the 8th Amendment. The current Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, has announced the referendum on repealing the Eight Amendment is likely to be held on May 25th of this year. The announcement came after a meeting of the Cabinet yesterday.

"Save the 8th" is a campaign to defend the amendment to the Irish constitution, which defends the equal right to life of the mother and unborn baby.

There are some who are very passionate about justice but seemingly give very little attention to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of unborn babies each year.

Save the 8th movement needs intelligent, strategizing and brave campaigning to reach those whose minds are not yet made up on this issue. Will you help to Save the 8th?

Please pass this on to your relatives and friends, especially those who live in the south of Ireland. Please ask them to vote "No" to repealing the 8th Amendment and ask others to do the same.

"Cherish ALL the children of the nation equally; not just the privileged, planned or the perfect." 

You can also contact Life Institute for more details on SAVE the 8TH.

17 comments : said...

So what is the solution proposed by the anti-choice lobby? Are there any concrete proposals to tackle the issue of unwanted pregnancies beyond maudlin words and myopic cries of "never, never, never"? Or shall we just carry on with the continued private outsourcing of Irish abortions to clinics in the UK and the Netherlands while the pro-lifers look the other way? Out of sight, out of mind?

AM said...

there is no anti-choice solution other than to hold women in bondage. The solution is so simple. For those who do not want an abortion, they don't have one. That is their choice and that choice should have equal status to the choice of a woman to have an abortion. If we want an Ireland of equals that is a good start.

grouch said...

sionnach, maudlin and myopic u say - a strange choice of words to describe people who defend the unborn. not as bad as 'outsourcing of irish abortions' - what a scary phrase. as for 'concrete proposals' - go do the unthinkable and check out some pro-life websites - i know that might not be 'cool' for you and probably dont even want it on ur search history but u will find plenty of proposals - some from women who have had abortions who were never exposed to other 'concrete proposals'.
also, not happy calling us pro-life, we are now anti-choice. everything is a choice now have u noticed - EVERYTHING. this is by design. ur either pro ar anti. good slave bad slave. good consumer bad consumer. trannylover trannyphobe. no room for debate - just a pre-prepared script on whatever is being rolled out and we are then divided into either their side (and get mega bucks/media promotion) or the wrong side. no choice at all folks.

women in 'bondage' Anthony. mutilated babies in buckets. take ur pick.

its all equality now except when it comes to equal rights of the child. and to deny them that right u have to dehumanize them and use language in a cold cruel sterile way. sad.

il turn ur question around sionnach - what is the solution proposed by the pro-abortion lobby to an unwanted pregnancy? and why do they only have one? our side has plenty but rules out one.

the child is protected under the 8th. of all the things thats wrong with ireland right now u want to vote this article away. here's the thing - no-one can ever say it was taken away by fascists or totalitarians. if it is scrapped the history books will say that the irish voted to get rid of it themselves.

AM said...


those who believe that abortions are mutilated babies in buckets will have their chance to vote in the referendum. As will those who do not think that.

The more choices we have in life the better. You wish to have the choice to deny women the choice. Why should your choice trump theirs?

In this clash of preferences for choices who shall decide? People are not prepared to let you or me choose for them. Why should they? The best I can offer you is to totally defend your right not to have an abortion.

grouch said...

choice choice choice choice, everythings a choice, the ULTIMATE triumph of the consumerist society - life itself is now has been reduced to a choice. consumerism is the lowest form of consciousness.

so what are you saying Anthony - that an abortion dusnt end with a mutilated baby in a bucket - why of course it dusnt, how cud i have been so dumb - it was just a choice.

Simon said...

I grew up being very pro-life. I was convinced by stories like Christy Brown who brought me such joy as a child but who may have died if they knew how disabled he'd be before he was born into a struggling family. Poverty and disability being mooted at the time as reasons to terminate.

I was put off as I left my teenage years by the actions of organisations taking photos of young women and generally intimidating them as they were entering the Brook Clinic in Belfast.

I became ambivalent. Torn two ways between the rights of the unborn and the rights of women. I have every sympathy with the unborn, being the most vulnerable and as soon as the primitive streak appears, individuals, albeit reliant completely on their mother's body for survival.

Personally, the thought of abortion disgusted me. However, I am not a woman and as such my opinion is very much apart from the reality of an unwanted pregnancy. As a man, I felt I had less of a right to stop something if I'd never be in that situation.

I moved from ambivalence to pro-choice quite recently. I read stories of desperation and horror throughout the debate on the 8th. I understand abortion isn't a panacea. I wouldn't want to see it available after a certain stage but some women are in absolute despair albeit with their sanity intact. One story I read hit home with a whollop.

Particularly in cases of rape and/or incest, if the mother's in danger or when the baby would be born with a guaranteed short and painful life I feel the mother should decide. It's not a pleasant choice but often it's the only viable one and not just confined to these scenarios.

I feel counselling is needed as going through an abortion can be horrific for the woman involved and they need as much support as possible. Not left bereft and struggling.

I would instinctively be against abortion but after reading stories filled with despair I have to say I'd vote to give women the choice.

I also feel with the way the Church handled stories of child abuse and Magdalene Laundries, mother and baby homes, etc the hypocrisy of Pilate comes to mind.

I hope men act more responsibly and are less violent, particularly less sexually violent and treat women as equals in society. I feel things like unequal pay and keeping aborting illegal is part and partial of treating women as lesser beings. Women deserve to be treated with more respect. Often things like rape are treated as somehow unavoidable or the woman is to blame but abortion is beyond countenance. It baffles me at times.

AM said...


you are as susceptible to the culture of choice as the rest of us. You want to choose to deny women the choice to abort or not. You want to choose for them. In any situation if we are to be denied choice who gets to deny us and how were they chosen?

If you assert that you are stupid, your call. I choose not to agree with you.

While I can never speak for the women who choose to have abortion, I don't believe that they feel that they are slaughtering a child and dumping it in a bucket. They believe they are seeking a medical intervention to prevent the foetus developing into a child. You are fully entitled to a different opinion on that and to make your case. But today the medical profession, human rights bodies, majority opinion seemingly does not agree with your interpretation. So, in that situation where opinion is so deeply polarised who gets to make the call? Something has to. The demand for abortion to be a right cannot be ignored. Bottom line is should you have the right to make the call for the woman and the woman denied that right?

AM said...


a very well constructed comment.

I too used to oppose abortion. And as I explained to Sean Bres, like yourself I instinctively resile from it the further into the pregnancy it is.

I think what weakens the anti-choice case is that generally they even oppose the morning after pill. When they are unable to draw a distinction between a morning after pill and a late term abortion, their argument becomes formalistic and can't escape sounding more like religion than reason. And they invariably get stuck on the rape one. Basically the bishop can rape your daughter and they will insist on her having no right, merely an obligation to bear his child.

Henry JoY said...

The human mind is born to be righteous; to make moral evaluations, judgments and even condemnations. As humans we have evolved to do morality just as much as we have to do language, sexuality, music and many other things.

"Our righteous minds made it possible for human beings - but no other animals - to produce large cooperative groups, tribes and nations without the glue of kinship. But at the same time, our righteous minds guarantee that our cooperative groups will always be cursed by moralistic strife. Some degree of conflict may even be necessary for the development of any society."

Henry JoY said...

That last quote is from the into to social psychologist Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided By Politics And Religion".

grouch said...

"the medical profession" - ur bowing to the new priests Anthony, mostly a profession of egotistical demigods in the pocket of the pharmaceutical giants. "human rights bodies" - they have all been hijacked by non-humans like soros and all push globalist agendas now, and as for "majority opinion" - we will see about that. and what if they did!! - does that change anything - is that now the yardstick for all arguments - majority rules!! if the majority ruled that everyone with no pension over 70 should be sent to the euthanasia clinic, am i supposed to just shrug my shoulders and say fair enuf. as for the rest of ur comment ur 'choosing' to deceive urself that there isnt a child there. i, u or anyone has the right to speak up or not speak up for that innocent child. i choose to speak up for it and try and persuade the mother and 'society' that there are other less monstrous ways of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy, that dont end in death (and megabucks for abortion and spare parts INDUSTRY). you say the demand for an abortion to be a right cannot be ignored, i say you cannot ignore the rights of the innocent child. as for " Bottom line is should you have the right to make the call for the woman and the woman denied that right? " are you saying this is all about me?
if abortion is a 'right' - how come there are so many lies and underhand tactics from pro-abortion lobby. from savita in galway 6 years ago, a case where the "medical profession" fucked up so bad and managed to miss three of the four signs of sepsis, to the disgusting lies from the irish times who twisted the entire story to make it look like this poor woman died because she was denied an abortion - a total lie - to the pure conjob of the 'citizens' assembly and oireachtas committee and the recent claim by senator catherine noone that she couldn't find one doctor in Ireland or abroad who would argue for retaining the 8th - one wonders how if something is a 'right', it has to use so much 'wrong'. heres a few lines from belfast poet louis macneice

...I am not yet born, console me
I fear that the human race may with tall walls wall me,
with strong drugs dope me, with wise lies lure me,
on black racks rack me, in blood-baths roll me.

I am not yet born; provide me
With water to dandle me, grass to grow for me, trees to talk
to me, sky to sing to me, birds and a white light
in the back of my mind to guide me...

from Prayer before Birth by Louis MacNeice

take ur pick - bloodbaths or the white light. thats your 'choice'.

AM said...


the medical profession did not fail my child when he was twice admitted to hospital. I am in no doubt had I not have taken him, chose to pray, do a rain dance, rub some herb on him he would be quite ill or worse. But you are free to denigrate them all you want while the bulk of us are free to insist on a world class state of the art health service staffed by medical professionals.

For all your rejection of majority opinion you still have not told me who is to decide. Minority opinion? What guarantee have we that it would be better than majority opinion? It is not about deceiving myself but about following the best advice available and seeing if you can tell me why that advice is wrong rather than waving your fist at it. But it matters not that we disagree on this. What does matter is given that fundamental disagreement who is to decide? It cannot be a difficult question to answer?

You and I have as much right to speak on behalf of the unborn as we do to speak on behalf of the people in China. Why is anybody obliged to give us the time of day if we choose to appoint ourselves as spokespeople on behalf of whatever?

You are wholly entitled to express your view in a bid to persuade pregnant women and society that your way is better. That is quite different from making a choice to deny society and pregnant women a choice.

Rights are decided by society. They are not timeless and ahistorical. We might wish it were different but it isn't. Humans make laws and assign rights to people in human society. There is nothing else making those laws. And human society is moving to the position that the foetus does not have rights to the same extent as a pregnant woman. So when you talk about the rights of the foetus or unborn, you are saying you want that right to exist but that is all its is - a desire to have your opinion enshrined in law as a right. That's ok but you have to make the case against others who feel very differently. And it brings us right back to the question of who decides?

Abortion is a right where it is deemed a right. As of yet it is not a right in Ireland but many people are trying to make it a right. I think it will eventually become a universal human right, much like the right not to be enslaved, tortured, raped. Concepts of rights change over time probably because we have no great law giver who sets out rights for us, leaving us to decide them ourselves with all the inherent flaws that brings.

It is not about you but it seems a natural question to ask of you for the sake of clarity, given your position, should the woman be denied the right to decide by you who will decide for her? And if you do not decide for her who shall? These are really very simple and obvious follow on probes from your arguments.

As for lies, the same is being said regularly in relation to the anti-choice lobby. Each side accuses the other of lying.

I am quite sure I will go to Louis McNeice if I want poetry but doubt very much if I would go to him if my arm was broken: poetry no more cures broken arms than prayer. So, we go back to who shall choose for women - you and those who share your view or the women themselves?

grouch said...

i totally agree, doctors are great for broken bones,trauma, surgery etc, no-one disagrees with that, but pumping children full off pills because theyre adhd or add or asd or some other made up diagnosis for life is another story. u are aware of the ruination of millions of western youth right now with opioids etc, if not, research it, but u wont find much about it in msm. also some kids have to take more pills for the side effects of the original pill (which does nothing but turn them into zombies) and then further pills for the side effects from them. they are not a medical profession, they are a pharmaceutical tyranny.

"You and I have as much right to speak on behalf of the unborn as we do to speak on behalf of the people in China. Why is anybody obliged to give us the time of day if we choose to appoint ourselves as spokespeople on behalf of whatever"
with all due respect this is a ridiculous statement.

"As for lies, the same is being said regularly in relation to the anti-choice lobby. Each side accuses the other of lying. "

give me an example of 'anti-choice' (as u luv calling us) lies - we have noting to lie about. one example please. the whole pro-abortion lobby is lying, manipulating and cheating the whole time. even Leinster House now has had enuf of citizens commitee bullshit. its the same in every country. 50 million american babies have been aborted over Roe vs Wade lies. two one minute long vids here.

as for louis mac neice, i dont think anyone wud go to a poet if their arm was broken, personally, believe it or not, id head down to accident and emergency if my arm was busted.

AM said...


thanks for your answer but I still see nothing about who shall choose.

From the Irish Examiner 2016:

On Monday, the Ireland edition of The Times revealed that a Dublin-based pro-life organisation had advised an undercover reporter seeking an abortion that the procedure could lead to breast cancer due to links with ovarian cancer and the impact of an abortion.
The same counsellor also alleged that in some cases parents who have an abortion can become child abusers by either neglecting their future children or giving them too much attention.
The chairman of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, Dr Peter Boylan, rejected the claims, insisting there is absolutely no truth that someone who has an abortion is at greater risk of either breast cancer or committing child abuse.

grouch said...

i still see nothing but the denial of the humanity of the child. i choose to defend its right to life just as i defend the mothers right to life. in my book no-one, not even a mother carrying a child, has the right to 'choose' to end that child's life unless her own life is under threat.

Anthony, is that The Times and Irish Examiner ur talking about. fair enuf. one msm talking about another msm and some undercover guy talking to some unnamed pro-life group who are saying something about parents turning into child abusers. im sure the stiff upper lip brits reading The Times recoiled in horror reading about us backward paddies!!!!! father ted land!! you have just unwittingly proved what i mentioned earlier about the pro abortion lobby/industry using nothing but lies through the msm. dont fall for it. what boylan should have mentioned though is the link between abortion and a whole plethora of both physical and psychological issues for the mother, including the possibility of not having any more kids, but he wudnt becuz he is a regime flunky and the poster boy doctor for the abortion lobby and has been caught out telling porkies before. its all porkies with this crowd.

AM said...


and still nothing about who makes the choice.

grouch said...

the 'choice' is a child, not a brand.