Thursday, February 12, 2015

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Pilgrimage to Hell – The Greatest Inhumanity

John Coulter with a piece on the Nazi final solution which earlier featured in Tribune magazine. John Coulter is a radical right wing unionist writer and an evangelical Christian. He is also a columnist at the Irish Daily Star.

Just imagine the 3,000 people who died in the Irish Troubles being slaughtered in 30 minutes – that’s what the Nazis had perfected in their death camp in Poland, Auschwitz Birkenau.


This year marked the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the camp by the Russians in 1945 during the final months of the Second World War. Although it was only operational for a handful of years during that war, an estimated one and a half million men, women and children were slaughtered at Auschwitz using gas, firing squad, torture, horrific medical experiments, hanging, starvation and illness.

In terms of the Nazis Final Solution to eliminate Europe’s Jews, Auschwitz was Hitler’s jewel in the crown of his murder machine. Hitler’s SS thugs set up two types of concentration camps – a labour camp to supply slave workers, and a death camp, which had only one aim: mass murder.

The tour of the Auschwitz camp lasts around four hours. It will be a roller coaster emotional journey to hell and back again. Having covered the Irish conflict for more than 30 years, I wrongly believed this experience would prepare me for visiting Auschwitz.

I even watched blockbuster movies on such camps, such as Schindler’s List, starring Irish screen legend Liam Neeson, The Boy In The Stripped Pyjamas, as well as the renowned documentary series The World at War.

Our hotel was an hour’s drive from the camp, but I became engulfed by an dreadful uneasiness as we approached it. Then it hit me.

As I walked through the gates with the notorious metal sign – “Work Shall Set You Free” – in German, I had to run out again to vomit in the visitors’ centre. My own personal Auschwitz nightmare was underway.

It was a bright, sunny summer’s day and thousands of people were visiting the camp. But this is not a tourist attraction; this is a memorial to man’s inhumanity to man. Indeed, a visit to the camp is more like a pilgrimage to gain a clear feeling of the depths to which man can sink when it comes to the slaughter of fellow humans.

Out of respect for the murdered, we don head sets to enable us to hear the whispers of the tour guide as we visit the various areas of the camp.

No one shouts; no one even talks loudly. Every building is a piece in a jigsaw of mass murder. And the emotional turmoil for the visitor deepens as we visit each cell, each room, each corridor and each execution yard.

Even inside the buildings I wear my sunglasses to prevent people seeing me weep as I walk the corridors lined with photos of the victims. Then I realise many others are weeping too at the horrors which out tour guides unfold to us. It is not merely words – it is clear images; the suit cases of the victims piled high; the hair cut from the victims; the execution wall where people were shot. Eventually, I am composed enough to get my photo taken with the shoes of tens of thousands of victims behind me.

Worse follows. We travel to the Birkenau section to see the beds where victims were held before slaughter. The Nazis tried to cover their tracks by blowing up some of the gas chambers. We see the ruins as they have been left – alongside the ashpit where the remains of the dead were dumped.

Even worse follows. We are taken into a gas chamber. Although it contains a massive memorial wreath, I look skywards to the vents as if I was expecting people to drop the poison gas pellets down.

Then the door slams behind me and for a few terrifying seconds, I experience the petrifying sensation that this is not a shower room but a room of death. Thankfully, the door is opened and we walk out to see the crematoriums – except the victims’ bodies would have been carried out.

Only one aspect of the camp is off limits – the house of the camp commandant for fear it could become an iconic symbol for neo-Nazis.

But unlike one and a half million other humans, I walk out of Auschwitz. In spite of the warm summer afternoon, my gentle dander becomes a steadily hurried rush as I almost race towards the bus to take me back to the hotel.

I had been given a glimpse of a man-made hell. I still have nightmares every January around the commemoration of International Holocaust Memorial Day.

In spite of the nightmarish experience, it is one pilgrimage which I recommend everyone takes at least once in their lives. It will leave you in no doubt about the evils of racism.

45 comments :

mcclafferty32 said...

Good to have reminders like this.

Mary Marscal said...

That decimation torture and genocidal practices were inflicted on Jewish people is a horrendous reality and one which Islamists love and are angling to re-inflict including on followers of Iosa/Christians. We are proud peoples of the Book and I am proud to have known Jewish individuals who survived the holocaust - one was my workplace boss for some years. It was a huge honour to have him attend my wedding decades ago – felt very proud of him and his beauty of spirit. He was never bitter which taught me lots. Emotional and physical responses are normal… I was deeply emotionally impacted decade or so ago at Anne Frank house – Amsterdam when I leafed through an enormous tome of names of victims they have on display. Lest we forget

However I suspect strongly AND DISCERN your article is a biased one and your self described wailing wall of horror and mental masturbation is more to do with how much attention grabs you can get which is DESPICABLE. I cannot respect it nor find it respecting of those who died and those who survived.

Raphael Lemkin coined the term genocide in 1944 and the term involved all acts that seek or inflict ethnic suppression in culture, language and human rights including land grabs… Does that ring a bell? Should for your kind. I have no doubt that if the Brits could have built gas ovens and shoved indigenous Irish in them they would have – they just went for the starving them to death… shooting them down and incarcerating them. Do you feel the same revulsion/grief when you walk on Irish land which is embedded north east south west with mass graves?
Did you feel revulsion/grief when Israel slaughtered indiscrimately and predominately Muslim men women and children in Gaza last year or did you engage in selective thinking/responses based on a pecking order of worthiness of humanity – you know the mindset warped by Masonic doctrines, scientific racism and that big white is right Brit version of Jesus? Did you know both Muslim and Christians in Gaza helped one another through that hell inflicted on them?…
Do you recall the British empire horrors … worldwide. The generational historic trauma lives on. Either recant your belief or die is the new genocide on the world by Islamists. You yourself may well have to face into it John Coulter one day and that is where the rubber meets the road. Something you should consider before pounding out your articles.
IDEA: How about you interview Ali Selim on his call for Sharia or Choudary… Either one would do… Both are chafing at the bit to be heard & instil fear on people. You just might get some fame that way but it would be all too real an experience for you… Their eyes burning with demonic hate lookin at u the infidel. Kid you NOT All the demons come out to play in those kind of scenarios… TIPS FOR A GRAND INTERVIEW WITH DRAMA AND DUBIOUS THRILLS ALL THE WAY…
Tell Selim you suspect the muslim brotherhood will take Al-Sisi out & ensure you state Al Sisi is a brave devout Muslim man (he totally is btw) who has demanded an end to extremism by Islamists and challenged imams about it – he did so at Christmas 2014. For even more impact in an interview with Choudary tell him halfway thru the interview you will NEVER bow to a Babylonian moon god and then write an article about his responses Coulter… I would read that.
Recently Daesh/IS slaughtered 21 young men Christian Copts from a village… martyrs sa Iosa. You can see how they live as impoverished dhimmi under Islam in video Grief is palpable. Genocide starts slow and builds up just like it did in nazi era. The marking of the Nazarani sign on Christian homes last year was a key signifier of what was and is to come
Google this Use google as other browers may not hold it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8yeCgSPGO8#t=141

grouch said...

THE FAMINE YEAR

Weary man, what reap ye? -- "Golden corn for the stranger."
What sow ye? -- "Human corses that wait for the avenger."
Fainting forms, hunger-stricken, what see ye in the offing?
"Stately ships to bear our food away amid the stranger's scoffing."
There's a proud array of soldiers -- what do they round your door?
"They guard our master's granaries from the thin hands of the poor."
Pale mothers, wherefore weeping? "Would to God that we were dead --
Our children swoon before us, and we cannot give them bread!"

Little children, tears are strange upon your infant faces,
God meant you but to smile within your mother's soft embraces.
"Oh! we know not what is smiling, and we know not what is dying;
But we're hungry, very hungry, and we cannot stop our crying.
And some of us grow cold and white -- we know not what it means;
But as they lie beside us we tremble in our dreams."
There's a gaunt crowd on the highway -- are you come to pray to man,
With hollow eyes that cannot weep, and for words your faces wan?

"No; the blood is dead within our veins - we care not now for life;
Let us die hid in the ditches, far from children and from wife!
We cannot stay to listen to their raving famished cries --
Bread! Bread! Bread! and none to still their agonies.
We left an infant playing with her dead mother's hand:
We left a maiden maddened by the fever's scorching brand:"
Better, maiden, thou wert strangled in thy own dark-twisted tresses!
Better, infant, thou wert smothered in thy mother's first caresses.

"We are fainting in our misery, but God will hear our groan;
Yet, if fellow-men desert us, will He hearken from His throne?
Accursed are we in our own land, yet toil we still and toil;
But the stranger reaps our harvest -- the alien owns our soil.
O Christ! how have we sinned, that on our native plains
We perish homeless, naked, starved, with branded brow like Cain's?
Dying, dying wearily, with a torture sure and slow --
Dying as a dog would die, by the wayside as we go.

"One by one they're falling round us, their pale faces to the sky;
We've no strength left to dig them graves -- there let them lie.
The wild bird, if he's stricken, is mourned by the others,
But we -- we die in Christian land, -- we die amid our brothers,
In the land which God has given, like a wild beast in his cave,
Without a tear, a prayer, a shroud, a coffin, or a grave.
Ha! but think ye the contortions on each livid face ye see,
Will not be read on Judgement-day by eyes of Deity?

"We are wretches, famished, scorned, human tools to build your pride,
But God will yet take vengeance for the souls for whom Christ died.
Now in your hour of pleasure -- bask ye in the world's caress;
But our whitening bones against ye will rise as witnesses,
>From the cabins and the ditches in their charred, uncoffined masses,
For the Angel of the Trumpet will know them as he passes.
A ghastly spectral army, before great God we'll stand,
And arraign ye as our murderers, O spoilers of our land!"

-- Lady Jane Wilde ("Speranza") -- (c. 1820-1896)

AM said...

grouch has left a new comment on your post "Pilgrimage to Hell – The Greatest Inhumanity":

according to jewish encyclopedia of the 1930's there was 3.5 million jews in europe. my question is how many jews died in the camps. and before u say holocaust denier - YOU ARE THE FUCKING DENIER. The irish really are the biggest holocaust deniers in the world. youd think ireland was one big potatoe farm in the 1840s and that the potato failed and one million died and one million emigrated. coffin ships blah blah blah. we were not taught that 70 dragoons of the brit army were deployed here through the 1840s to take food to port under armed guard . if that prick geldof was in ethiopia and french or german troops were shipping out food under armed guard they wouldnt be calling it famine. but it was a famine because, remember the images, there was nothing growing there. ireland on the other hand was stuffed to the gills with the best of food but it was shipped off to feed our overlords. fuck u sir bob u bag of phlegm. just like i believe the death toll for jews is exagerrated in the holocaust, the irish death toll for the 'famine', which was in reality the Gaelic Holocaust was much higher. mary a chara,id love to get a ship full of food and pull it up beside the coffin ship memorial in dublin. let the public think about it for a few days. see what happens. ireland was murdered in the 1840s and it was the gaels that took the brunt. anyone who calls what happened here in 1840s a famine should be starved for a month. its not funny but i have to laugh at the various irish talking heads who waffle on about the jewish holocaust but call what happened here a famine. what a spineless bunch of creeps.

AM said...

Grouch,

sorry about messing up your above comment. Hit the delete button by mistake but immediately copied in from the email notice.

Even if you were a Holocaust denier which I don't believe you are, it should be perfectly legal. Some countries would jail you for expressing the opinion that the Holocaust did not happen.

grouch said...

i dont think i expressed the opinion that the holocaust didnt happen so i dont think even israel would lock me up. im just questioning the figures - out of respect for the dead and for the truth, not to be some crank. i will try and find the link to the jewish encylopedia. i believe more irish people died in the gaelic holocaust than the jewish one. not that i like believing that, i hope im proved wrong. but we are only now, thanks to the net seeing what really happened here back then but most dont want to go there. they go for the potato story. fair enough but as lady wilde said
"From the cabins and the ditches in their charred, uncoffined masses,
For the Angel of the Trumpet will know them as he passes.
A ghastly spectral army, before great God we'll stand,
And arraign ye as our murderers, O spoilers of our land!"

AM said...

Grouch,

I thought your question a reasonable one

grouch said...

sound anthony, and note the word 'charred' speranza uses. how is it concentration camps become workhouses in ireland and mass graves of charred bodies are only mentioned with the jews. amy winehouse was a darling jewish girl. i love the jews the jews are sound. my mechanic swears the tuatha de danann were one of the tribes. they brought the harp here first.
"By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
when we remembered Zion.
There on the poplars
we hung our harps,"
i dont love the fake jews though. ie, those 'jewish' bankers who bankrolled hitler.

Seán Ó Maoilearca said...

I’ve gotta laugh sometimes at British audacity when I see Holocaust commemorations and how they proudly remember stopping such Nazi evil as Adolf Hitler,, Yawn…..

The laughable part in all this is their amnesia, there’s never a mention of the 100s of years of British colonial tyranny throughout the world. No mention of the millions of lives they took or the suffering they inflicted on millions of innocent and indefensible people who were persecuted for no other reason than they were less powerful and a soft target. Pillage, Rape, Torture, Slavery, Murder it was all there and on an industrial scale in the British Empire.

It’s a fact that Hitler was a keen admirer of the English and of Britain’s dominance in the world, and it’s also a fact he never wish to go to war with Britain in the first place because he admired their “cultured way of life“.
The monumental error that Hitler made was not killing millions of innocent people, No, the British had been doing that for centuries and getting any with it, His biggest fuck up was not following the English tyranny handbook chapter by chapter, instead he skipped pages & chapters and attempted to concentrate his death and destruction into less than a decade which inevitably made it seem unprecedented to the rest of the world. Had he studied the England’s tyranny manual in more detail and spread his plan out over a few generations the Germans would probably have gotten away with it without as much as a whimper from the Brits and there would be no mention of a holocaust day.

Henry JoY said...

Welcome to the 'fellowship of the wounded'.

Good luck with your 'Free Sardonian Republic' grouch. ... I doubt if you can escape the ugly aspects of being human though.

grouch said...

we might escape the ugly aspect of the next 20 years on this planet. we have survivals skills. u can learn them too. buy some silver and bury it. theres a tip for u.

grouch said...

or u can starve to death in a land of plenty.

Mary Marscal said...

@ grouch Yes re lies re ‘the famine’ when it was calculated genocide. All Irish know this deep down. My Mother used to talk about it when I was a kid & get upset - she had an old book an Irish priest had written first hand accounts of what he witnessed. I was going to relay one of the stories in it but wont as it still freaks me out decades later… It haunted me as a kid – is heavy stuff. I have never believed it was a famine like they taught in school and like they call the memorials Famine… Yes re the poem I know it…

It could be possible with the creation of Zionism ideology/Theodore Herzl and the slaughter and dispossessing Palestinians of their land they may have tweaked the figures. I trawled thru Herzl writings but did find anything that called for genocide.

That the Holocaust happened is fact but it was not just Jews they slaughtered… it was countless other peoples/cultures as well. There is a definitely a curious trend to feature just the Jews as the victims in movies and such. But it was so many other people as well. I think American Christians have been duped heavily by Zionism (a secular manmade ideology) and now they are realising all too late.
Who are the ‘Peoples of the Book’ as the Islamists call us:
Both Orthodox Jews and Christians believe the Word is Living Word hence the book (Torah for Orthodox Jews & Bible for followers of Iosa) is revered but not worshiped like an idol because the Word is the breath of life which is God, Holy Spirit, Great I AM etc. The Word is a two edged sword exposing lies from truth and the filth from purity.

1 Torah (Messiah yet to come for his people) Deut 6 4-9. Why you see scriptures in phylactery etc The instrument in vid is a shofar (ancient horn trumpet) and the Torah scroll. Att Sarah Heaton if u read this add in stuff that I don’t know or haven’t covered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82JbnMWKtSE

2 Bible (Torah & New Testament/New Covenant through death resurrection of Iosa/Yeshua – Messiah has come/He our salvation/He will return for his people/church) Coptic language predated Arabic language The Copts were oppressed by Islam and are too this day. Psalm 49 – 50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3mBXJhxRoY

PS Imagine having to work with someone like Coulter – your blood pressure would soar sky high and ur hands would b clenched in fists all day long. slan

grouch said...

and i nearly forgot - happy valentines mccrackhead.

Henry JoY said...

grouch

Horrible things happened to innocent people down the ages. Bad things no doubt persist, and will continue to befall good and decent people.

If hoarding and burying silver ameliorates your existential angst then keep at it!

Better though to accept the uncertainty that's woven through all life. There's no escaping that. Sure its painful at times to live the perfectly imperfect life in this imperfectly perfect world. And yes, we all can fall into irrational beliefs and avoidance strategies in vain attempts to ease that angst.

Eventually, if we're lucky enough and mature enough, we come to accept life on life's terms ... life is not fair (certainly not all the time) ... never was ... and never will be.

Feel free to hang onto your mad ideations, I no longer swallow them!

grouch said...

whatever henry. just to let u know silver is actually a real thing, whereas the money in ur bank account is not. no mad ideations there. now go read a book on memes.

mary, please for the love of god do not let that book disappear. i am not morbid but i want to see it some time. maybe chris fogarty would be interested in it, i believe he is bringing out a book on the 'famine' soon, he reckons the 1841 census is way off but i havent seen his proof yet. are u aware of his site irish holocaust. have been on google earth lately checking out my old stomping grounds in sydney, is that where u are. anyway, mind urself old bean.

Simon said...

Grouch, "according to jewish encyclopedia of the 1930's there was 3.5 million jews in europe".

For any number of possible reasons this doesn't mean the figures for the Holocaust are inaccurate.

Was this encyclopedia contemporaneously written? Who wrote it? Where did their figures come from? Were the figures from censuses or from poor research? What constitutes "Europe" in their research? Is there any supporting evidence?

Are there any contemporaneous records that contradict the Jewish encyclopedia?

The second world war has been possibly the most researched and written about conflict in the history of humankind. The Holocaust has been one of the most researched and written about subjects of the second world war. I am sure some of the writers work or worked to an agenda but if the numbers are inaccurate there has to be weighty evidence to convince me.

The Famine has been purposely ignored over the last century. The revisionist historians claim any grievance is purely Republican propaganda and the British did their best for that time period. Hogwash!

As for Holocaust deniers the Israeli government has joined with the Turkish government in denying the Armenian Holocaust. The persecution that gave rise to the term 'Holocaust'.

Seems to me these were both Holocausts. The Famine was a horror in its own right. But by denying the Armenian Holocaust the Israelis can't complain about the Jewish Holocaust deniers to the same extent as they have a right to.

The Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people also harms their right to be sanctimonious. They're not wrong by complaining just hypocritical.

You're right about the Famine, Grouch. Ignored to an extent that many people of different hues seem embarrassed to address its history. Maybe they're afraid the truth may colour some people's views.

Simon said...

By the way more food was imported into Ireland than exported according to the import/export shipping manifests of the time. Since the imported food went to the rich and the powerful and I guess the soldiers this is in many respects more horrific. Particularly since a lot of food was indeed exported.

grouch said...

simon, the encyclopedia is quoted in one of the khazar documentaries on youtube, i couldnt find it last nite. my recollection is the host of the doc was quoting from a book printed by jews in 1930s that he was holding in his hand and the camera scanned the page with the figures. it was an old hardback encyclopedia printed in 1930s. i will keep an eye out for it. the jews went through a diabolical holocaust, all i want to know is how many, thats all. how on earth could the figure of six million jews have come out so fast after ww2. how? think about it. anything to do with zionist set up of israel.? remember these guys own the media. they were waiting in the wings since balfour act.

Peter said...

Could someone recommend a book or two on the famine/holocaust?

grouch said...

watch - david cole at auswitzch. now theres a jew with balls.

Simon said...

The Great Irish Famine (Thomas Davis lecture series) edited by Cathal Poirteir has a decent reputation. I haven't read it so cannot be definitive.

It is a collection of essays/articles so maybe the different perspectives can help.

Grouch, there is a great possibility that the book if published at that time is inaccurate. If the census of the Famine period is flawed then why can't a book that is unlikely to be a definitive account of population?

You would need a copy of that book in your hand, look at its history and references and compare with other contemporary books of equal or greater weight.

The World Almanac published in 1939 put the European population of Jews in 1933 at over 9 million. It isn't unusual for figures of population to be lagging behind time-wise as it takes a long time to compute. It doesn't mean this figure is accurate or definitive but it tends to correlate with other figures given by different sources.

Two books with vastly different figures. I would base my views on that which is supported by the bulk of academic studies.

Surely if it was so easily disproved some historian would have convincingly done so?

grouch said...

i dont know is there one good book or two to recommend peter.im not a great reader. chris fogarty irish holocaust website has information no spineless mainstream historian would touch. also the catholic church dont come across well to say the least. the famine pops up in local histories ive perused and one sentence from a local historian can sometimes affect/enlighten you more than any scholarly work. i was reading a lovely old local history about rathfarnham a few years ago called malachi horan remembers tallaght and rathfarnham or something like that. there was only one sentence about the famine in it......went looking for it there but cant find it. went something along the lines of - things were never the same, the joy went out of the people after it.
the irish kept their spirits up through the previous calamitous centuries but this was just the death of that spirit. i think irish manhood went down the toilet after the 1840s. uve been a serf for centuries and now the food u grow is being sent to port under armed guard while u cant feed ur children and have few means to attack the food removers. i really think we died back then and are dysfunctional and neurotic about that time because we know deep down that we went through the ultimate humiliation in those years. ie not feeding ur kids as the food u grew gets shipped to ur overlords. the same thing is happening now - genetically modified monsanto junk for the masses and super nutrition for the elite. there was a famine in the 17somethings but the ports were closed. if the ports had stayed closed during the 1840s this island would have not gone through HELL.

grouch said...

who are 'some historians' simon. those fuckers have distorted reality for too long but are redundant now in this era. they earn their crust from the state or/and media. roy foster for example, parasitic cunts like him. just like there is ms media there is ms history/distortion. weve had it here for centuries. that guy who went into aushwitzsch and made the doc (david cole) was a young jew. there is no way on earth that little gas chamber gassed 4 million jews ( which they recently downed to one million as its just mathematically impossible to kill that many people.) simon, u have the net and a mind. research this issue and u will realise there is no way 6 million jews died. ur point about census is valid, its difficult to tell. watch that david cole jewish lad in auschwitz, sorry but it was more a work camp than a death camp, the chemicals we thought were used to gas people was mostly used for delousing. surely its good news for jews that the figure of the holocaust is lower. the soviet propaganda machine that first came up with these figures was zionist.

frankie said...

David Cole: A jew Exposing the Holocaust

Simon said...

Frankie, I got as far as in the Western World "we are told that even though Non-Jews suffered as well it is the Jews and the Jews only that were marked for extermination." I couldn't go any further as I assumed this inaccuracy would be a sign of more inaccuracies to come.

Even when I was in school we were taught that gypsies, homosexuals and others were also marked for extermination. I have never heard it said by anyone, ever that only Jews were marked for extermination.

Even Wikipedia in its article on the Holocaust notes in the first sentence that 6 million Jews died during the Holocaust and in the second sentence notes that 5 million Non-Jews died during the extermination also. What could be more simplistic or basic or indeed more Western than Wikipedia?

I instinctively feel it would be a waste of time to watch something of that standard of enquiry.

frankie said...

Simon take the 54mins out of your life to watch it until the end...

or Watch this almost 5min long news clip

grouch said...

if they changed the figure at auschwitz from 4 to 1, how come the figure of 6 didnt come down. watch it simon ffs.

Seán Ó Maoilearca said...

Watched it from start to finish and there wasn't a word of the Wannsee conference in it.

grouch said...

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/31/gilad-atzmon-the-wannsee-conference-truth-and-myth/

Mary Marscal said...

@ grouch re the book Mum used to read out of re the famine it is long gone… After my Dad died she moved house and there was a massive clean out of literally 100’s and thousands! of books – donated to charity I come from a book obsessed family. The famine book would have been in that lot. My Mother has also passed on so cannot ask her! However I think the book is utilised by researchers Can’t recall name of it but it is one of the earliest documentations/publication in the 1970’s that was doing the rounds and had numerous accounts written by an Irish priest..

Mary Marscal said...

@ everyone or anyone Tribute to the 21 Coptic Christians beheaded by Daesh/IS. In the actual Daesh beheading video they all prayed in unison to Iosa before being slaughtered. I couldn’t stop crying after watching their courage and faith – They died for their refusal to convert to Islam. These young Coptic men are my hero’s every one of them The beheadings are not in my video just some stills prior to the slaughter. The song is a Coptic hymn called Golgotha.
Google:
2015 A salute to 21 Coptic Christian martyrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUU0KM0rGQ

DaithiD said...

David Irving had the key Holocaust claims tested in his Lisptadt trial, and he lost. He looks a broken man, be careful with that pursuit grouch.There was an Northern Prod who was big on the 'revisionist' scene in the 80's too, died of AIDS (his name escapes me now). Ill watch anything, but most of the material has been debunked with Irving or Zundels trials.

grouch said...

thank u mary.
beg to differ daithi. i willl keep saying it til im blue in the face - they changed the fucking stone outside auschwitz from 4 to 1. its written in fucking stone. what is wrong with u. do u believe building 7 came down on its own. wake up and grow some balls and dont be tryin to spook me about some prod who died of aids.

DaithiD said...

grouch, funny you mention building 7, because its related to death camp number in that confusion reigned from initial reporting that was subsequently revised. Dont forget that camp was under Communist control after the war. As for building 7, it was pulled down with ropes due to fire damage, and i know the Alex Jones or Loose Change films allege charges in the building, but there is footage of cranes pulling down.Its the same theme on the reporting on 7/7 of the tube carriage floors bending upwards, bad initial reports (I like reading these things though, it tests your reasoning skills and there are always a neat anecdotes in them).

frankie said...

DaithiD,

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident


Arthur Schopenhauer (1788 - 1860)

Now FF to 3mins until 5 mins of In Plane Sight... 2mins of your life..

And you will understand Schopenhauer. Willaim Lewis uses Arthur Schopenhauer and all thruths to explain his logic...

The whole video is about 1hr 15mins..

DaithiD said...

frankie, I am familiar with that logic, my attempts at one night stands (as a single,young pup) passed through the same three stages.
How do you know you and grouch are not on stage 1 with the official narrative?

frankie said...

DaithiD,

Building 7 was pulled because it was the command center for the whole operation. Also in the vaults there was 750/800 million of green backs and gold bullion that was moved out shortly before Larry Silverstein gave the order to pull the building..

At least 7 of the 19 Taliban accused of hijacking the planes are very much alive today

No plane hit the Pentagon.. A bunker buster hit the Pentagon..


And United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed... Didn't take off that day.


At its simplest the WTC attacks was an insurance job...


All you (or anyone) has to do is look at the things the British got up to (and still are) in the o6c. How many lies have they told? Collusion, shoot to kill, BallyMurphy, NewLodge six, Bloody Sunday...How long did it take for a the truth about the 1980/81 hunger strikes to come out..

9/11 inside job, controlled by the NWO.. As George Carlin say's..

It's a big club and you ain't in it

(as for young pups and one nights stands.. I still have one night stands as a 46 yr old lone wolf)

grouch said...

frankie, daithi - im giving up pancakes for lent.

DaithiD said...

At least 7 of the 19 Taliban accused of hijacking the planes are very much alive today

Frankie, lets start with the easily provable.What are the names of these people?

frankie, daithi - im giving up pancakes for lent.

->insert tosser joke<-

grouch said...

that was one of my better jokes, how dare u. yeah im thinking ur right, building 7 WAS pulled down with ropes. now im off to get the flu vaccine coz i know they love me. bye.

frankie said...

DaithiD ,



Frankie, lets start with the easily provable. What are the names of these people?

Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).



Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well..The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt


At least 7 of the 9/11 hijackers are still alive..

Simon said...

Frankie, "At least 7 of the 19 Taliban accused of hijacking the planes are very much alive today"

That reads a little misleadingly as if those who were accused and are alive today are still being treated as suspects of actually hijacking the planes.

The news story in the link was from only two weeks after the attacks. Are you surprised the US intelligence information was inaccurate?

That's the US summed up. Not quite as efficient as you think. The US couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery never mind 9/11.

There are definitely questions that need answered but to say it's a US plan is fanciful as someone would find out or at least some evidence of weight would eventually arise. The US can't keep a secret. They are inept.

Maybe Elvis planned it as revenge for Marilyn Monroe being the sniper on the grassy knoll and killing his biggest fan?

DaithiD said...

thanks frankie have you read this ? : Sample of Three Guys

It makes sense for the hijackers to steal other peoples identities so as not to alert authorities 4 or 5 of them are on the same plane. Its these identity fraud victims who were found alive.
This is not to say there are strange anecdotes around 9/11. The options trade betting on a collapse in the affected airline price is unexplained still.

grouch said...

im watching that building in dubai thats on fire now, and am patiently waiting for it to fall at the speed of gravity into its own footprint like building 7.