Saturday, October 18, 2014

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Spotlight and Máiría Cahill

The lava from Tuesday evening’s volcanic BBC Spotlight continues to spew over Sinn Fein, calcifying the party in its tracks while the woman at the heart of the documentary is making all the running with agility and no shortage of dexterity.


The day after the programme broadcast, I along with my wife was at Leinster House pursuing an entirely unrelated matter. Spotlight was mentioned only in passing by someone who had yet to see it and was inquiring whether we had. The Budget from the day before seemed to be the pressing concern and as we had our own business to contend with, I mused that it was not something that was showing signs of eruption down here. How wrong that proved to be. Within days Máiría Cahill, the articulate Belfast woman at the centre of the latest Sinn Fein sexual abuse scandal was meeting Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin in Leinster House, speaking on TV including a detailed interview conducted by Vincent Brown where she delivered a compelling and flawless performance.

Not since Catherine McCartney emerged almost ten years ago has Sinn Fein faced such articulate withering criticism from one of its former female supporters who felt seriously aggrieved by the manner in which the party had conducted business over rights abuses. It does not mean that the party is a priori guilty of anything, merely that Máiría Cahill, is much more persuasive with her narrative than Sinn Fein is, streets ahead in fact. 

Spotlight, facing down numerous attempts to place injunctions on it, used an extended presentation rather than the usual half hour or thereabouts to explore not the prolonged sexual abuse of Máiría Cahill, per se, but the manner in which both Sinn Fein and the IRA handled the matter in the wake of both bodies being made aware of Cahill’s circumstances.

For some strident unionist voices the opportunity is presented to delegitimise the IRA. There seems less concern about Mairia Cahill and more about fighting legacy battles. The focus is on what the IRA did or did not do but seems to ignore the insalubrious role of the PSNI. Had Máiría Cahill's abuser been a member of the RUC in 1997 rather than the IRA, there would be coughing and spluttering followed by plenty of concerned conversation about the proper amount of sugar to put in the vicar’s tea. 

Conversely, much of the commentary in defence of Sinn Fein’s role has been equally as skewed, seeking not to grasp the issue but to seek refuge behind the verdict of the court. The usual suspects, replete with track records of having defended every conceivable Sinn Fein falsehood, are circling the wagons to collectively scream something that sounds like Abuse Victims against the Peace Process and label as “Adams haters” anyone raising a legitimate concern. What exists somewhere in between the Unionist and Sinn Fein positional posturing is a fixed truth, something that either happened or did not. Extracting that from the fog of fiction is a function of investigative journalism if it is up to the task.    

What Spotlight has dropped in Sinn Fein’s lap courtesy of Máiría Cahill’s ‘shocking shocking devastating narrative ...’ is an image of its party leader looking every bit a moral monster prepared to go to any lengths, as suggested to him by the barrister Eilis McDermott during a recent rape trial, to save his political skin. According to Cahill, Gerry Adams said to her that abusers can be extremely manipulative, so manipulative, in fact, that the people who have been abused actually enjoy it.

Adams disputes this version just as he has disputed other narratives about his behaviour. Widely perceived as a serial liar he will have his work cut out to make Máiría Cahill, disappear. The Spotlight is on him, the neon light on her.

40 comments :

Simon said...

Republicans should have grasped the nettle when the story first rose it's ugly head a few years ago.

It was openly discussed on the quill and the number of apparent victims was such that it seemed inevitable something would have to give.

I understand the Republican argument that the police at the time would have used any investigation into sexual offences a path to bigger fish.

However, any intervening time gave space to deal with the accusations properly and to the comparative satisfaction of the alleged victims. Why this wasn't done escapes me.

The longer they leave the issue on a general level the worse it'll be for everybody apart from the alleged perpetrators.

If the police try to prosecute any Republicans who were not involved in the sex crimes under discussion that will prove their point and justify in a sense the unofficial investigations.

The only people to blame on the face of it are the alleged perpetrators of the sex crimes.

larry hughes said...

Any political party would need to be clear on this subject. SF however have been wrapped in the cotton wool of the 'peace-process' for a couple of decades. They seriously do not appear to live in the real world at all.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17819

I said earlier I felt it difficult for people in Donegal, Tyrone, Galway to have a clear knowledge of the goings on within SF/IRA in Belfast and therefor to be certain one way or the other on sexual abuse/rape allegations. Not so now. I don't know this man, but as a dad myself, I'M PROUD of him and feel for him. I think he has done well to stay out of jail for murder!! God bless him and his family.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-fully-support-my-brave-mairia-says-her-father-30674849.html




DaithiD said...

By linking this to previous ( proven) coverups,the danger is exoneration for Adams in this will serve as exoneration for all. I believe this is one instance where both sides are telling the truth (upto the point where police became involved and the need to protect volunteers with public denials took over).

ozzy said...

I don't like to make big politicial decisions over one or two news stories.
But right now, you have to SF any chance of SF taking power in Dublin are slim and getting slimmer by the day.
Their Peace process strategy is unravellling and there is no way back from it.
If SF are somehow able to pull a rabbit out of a hat to get themselves out of the shadow of a sex crime scandal, than I shall be amazed.
Of course Fiannna Fialure in the 26 Counties gets 20% support in the polls despite bankrupting the Country and a record of mass emigration so who knows?
Maybe Sinn Fein can Not only offer free water but can offer to pay people to take the bloody undrinkable bilge water and they will be Taoiseach in time for 2016. Irish voters are the dumbest in the World.
Of course Fianna Failure have been at it since 1926 Sinn Fein are relative latecomers.
So, this is how it ends?
Didn't the Brits shoot well

AM said...

DaitihD,

I am not at all sure what point you are making.

ozzy said...

The only way SF can make this go away. I think.
Is by some Stalinist show trial 21st Century style.
Get the alleged Rapeo and any other alleged Rapeo into a press conference
take the wrap. and try and manage the story, that way.
There is an old internet adage.
When your explaining your losing.
And Sf are explaining right now.
I am not a politico but I wouldn't be surprised if SF aren't behind the scenes trying to get the alleged prepertator to fall on his sword.
That would change the narrative. from one of explaining to one of action.
I guess they will just do the usual political party manoeuvre and launch an internal inquiry.
The UK Lib Dems had some Lord Snooty ( Lord Rennard ) harasss women and that is why they did.

DaithiD said...

AM, at present in the public psyche is an association of Adams with rape cover-ups. Even based on Mairia’s account, his role in this has been quite small, and a dispassionate analysis of their meeting shows him trying empathise and help her. Mairia’s narrative will understandably be skewed in matters such as this. As this plays out further in the media, I think this analysis will inform the consensus view. The problem with this could be a lazy (and incorrect) inference that he is less guilty in the other cover-ups too.
I think after the police became involved, with their pursuit of political matters not related to the rape, opposing versions of the meetings were understandable in order to protect volunteers.

AM said...

DaithiD,

a dispassionate reading of what Adams is alleged to have said to Cahill casts him in terrible light: hence the party reaction to it. Then the problem for him of denying they discussed anything about the rape: what did he meet her for? It doesn't gain traction.

As for the protection of vols - Adams is on record as saying all illegal activity after 1998 is criminal. Which sort of negates any justification from him for vols being protected. Membership of the IRA has been designated as criminal by him.

I don't know what way it will play out. Even if you are right about the limited degree of culpability on his part the nuance might be lost in the maelstrom.

The IRA probably managed a lot of these cases. People complained to them frequently enough. So many people are now talking about the particular case they are familiar with. It might be hearsay. I don't know. But I have heard more talk in the past few days about rapes carried out and covered up than I have ever heard before. It might be hype with every body seeking a piece of the action or it might not. Could it really have been that rampant and we didn't hear about it? The IRA wasn't exactly the tightest of organisations: it liked its scandal and backbiting, much like similar bodies.

One problem for Sinn Fein with this type of thing once it starts it can always come back again and again with new cases. Much like the Church. Members of the leadership that established how these cases would be handled by the IRA will always be a liability to SF. If SF did not have Adams as leader it could face the barrage much easier. It would try to explain what happened without having to be put in the position of denying it happened. As Ozzy said the type of explaining it is doing today makes it look as if it is losing the argument.

AM said...

DaithiD,

thanks for taking the time to explain that. I just didn't get it first time around.

DaithiD said...

Thanks AM,
” Adams is on record as saying all illegal activity after 1998 is criminal. Which sort of negates any justification from him for vols being protected.
I didn’t know this, its quite perverse (and par for the course!) given that Micheal McDowell said in Summer 2005 that Adams and MMG had recently left the IRA.
Anyhow, I guess I am ultimately concerned that Anti-Agreement Republicans are pragmatic about which issues can be leveraged for maximum discomfort. Catholics love their martyrs, and I think attacking everything turns him into one, and ultimately strengthens him.

Simon said...

AM, I would eat my hat if there are not similar cases from the past as the IRA was a comparatively large organisation and as such a great number of volunteers went through the ranks.

If these volunteers are human then within their overall body would be a number of disreputable types: The informers; the rapists; the selfish thieves; the violent bullies etc.

Every human has their weaknesses, some more malevolent than others. It would be impossible to prevent such activity although it could be minimised.

How did they investigate such activity? Internally of course. Some of the victims will be satisfied with the outcome of their investigation, others less so.

All will be nursing the effects to a greater or lesser extent. But such malevolent activity wasn't policy. It occurred in the IRA just as it occurred in most organisations and also in society as a whole.

Paedophile rings can surface in any organisation, eg. The human rights group NCCL before it became "Liberty". However, if there was such a paedophile ring as suggested by the Irish Independent, I will likewise eat my hat.

AM said...

DaithiD, see here for his comments on breaking the law post GFA being a crime.

I don't think anti agreement republicans should be making an issue of it just because it causes problems for Adams. Many anti-agreement republicans were in the movement when this type of management procedures were in effect.

Tain Bo said...

Daitih,

the party can shine their boots till doomsday but it would be impossible to suggest the RM was squeaky clean.

I understand what you mean about protecting the volunteers however if there were any amongst the rank exposed as deviant and criminal then the people’s army would be obligated to protect the people.
Protecting volunteers is one thing but harbouring suspected deviants leaves the leadership open to question and criticism.

The RM rough justice system kept many people in line with punishments ranging from a warning all the way through to exile and death. What chance would anyone have leveling a complaint against a volunteer or in this incident what chance would a frightened kid have being interrogated or questioned and worse accusing one of their own.

Adams had no qualms with harbouring and facilitating his now convicted brother so it would be sketchy to believe he would be genuinely sympathetic in this incident.
It would be no surprise if other women or young women had suffered the same and received much the same questioning resulting in more fear and silence.

Robert said...

Anthony,

'For some strident unionist voices the opportunity is presented to delegitimise the IRA.'

I hope they will not avail of that opportunity and there involvement is by invitation in a facilitation and supporting role of a victim of sexual abuse than to gore Adams politically. The illegitimacy and immorality of what was perpetrated against Mairia Cathill is manifest without Unionist input. It appears that Mairia is more than personally capable of fashioning her own stick with which she has deftly unwrapped, mid air, Sinn Fein's 'mystery parcels', showering them with their own faecal matter.

Fine piece of commentary by the way.

DaithiD said...

Tain Bo, the volunteers that needed protecting (and who im referring to) were the ones carrying out the investigation, I am not referring to the attacker.
”It would be no surprise if other women or young women had suffered the same and received much the same questioning resulting in more fear and silence.”
But if allegations are made against a volunteer, the Republican Movement had a duty of care to the rest of the community to investigate the matter fully. Surely they would have been accused of turning a blind eye if they hadn’t intervened?

larry hughes said...

Peter

How did you know about 'mystery parcels'...you really are a bit of a 'dark-horse' lol Just made my Sunday morning.

larry hughes said...

Good to know a 30 year dirty war was faught for dirty paedos.

frankie said...

Piece by piece, the Sinn Fein mountain of lies is starting to crumble

'But now Ms Cahill has warned that there are many other cases – and claims the IRA has placed children around Ireland in danger.

The Belfast woman is to hand over a dossier she has compiled to First Minister Peter Robinson today. She said: "I will show Peter Robinson evidence that Sinn Fein and the IRA internally investigated sexual abuse perpetrated by republicans, moved these people around the country, and in doing so put children at risk." She believes there are at least 30 victims on the island who had their cases hushed up by the Provisionals.

"Piece by piece, the Sinn Fein mountain of lies is crumbling," she wrote on Twitter yesterday.'

Tain Bo said...

Diaith,

point taken, but the problem with rough justice it doesn’t work so well. A hood being punished is simple enough or a suspected tout being interrogated again simple enough.
The problem with allegations of sexual abuse presents a greater problem the rough justice system is not equipped to deal with it.

At the time it would seem the best approach for the RM on the issue would be to cover it up rather than risk losing volunteers that leaves the victim with a new problem go to the cops and face the wrath of the Ra or go to the Ra and face the interrogation by those who have no formal training in such matters.
For the victim or alleged victim kangaroo justice would force them into silence.

On the reverse if a Ra man’s wife or daughter was raped or abused by an outsider we could assume that rough justice would be delivered swiftly.

Tain Bo said...

Peter,

you are bringing out Larry’s paranoia he thinks mystery parcel were a big secret.

DaithiD said...

Tain Bo, You raise an interesting point first off, is there any data regarding crime rates under IRA policing vs PSNI ?
I don’t see how the Republican Movement covered the rape up. A sober reading of events indicate any cover-up was with respect to the IRA involvement in investigating it , for example Mairia was told not to tell anyone an IRA investigation was underway, this is now being regurgitated as her being told not to tell anyone about the rape.
In terms of the Republican Movement being equipped to deal with this sort of case, perhaps there is a point, but a couple of recent rape cases in England (Frances Andrade & Tracy Shelvey) subjected the women to such trauma in court they committed suicide after.

Peter said...

Tain Bo and Larry
The Mystery Parcels comment wasn't written by me.

larry hughes said...

DaithiD

This is now in the hands of the DUP and Robbo will no doubt 'out' some 30 + individuals alleged to be sex offenders. The problem with the IRA investigations was that while Gerry Adams says offenders were shot or exiled, his brother Liam was promoted and protected within the movement. His crimes were absolutely shocking. What we can await for now are the families of all the alleged perps being dragged through the dirt also.

Tain Bo
You are a mystery parcel.

Tain Bo said...

Daithi,

I don’t know if there are any factual records regarding rates I think we can rule out fair assistance to victims from a republican background at the hands of the RUC. Their primary concern would be if a victim had any knowledge of the RM they could use for intelligence gathering and secondary would be less interested in the complainant if any at all.

Sexual abuse and cover ups are common in the military worldwide circles both loyalist and republicans would not be immune to the issue. The same theme is played out in other institutions’ all over the world.
It is not uncommon for some women to drop charges in order to avoid being put through the ringer.
As you mention some resort to suicide as the trauma is relived in a courtroom where a victim may feel like she is on trial for something she didn’t do.

Internal problem solving usually ended with dire consequences as horrific as rape is we only have to look at the disappeared to suggest the leadership were not exactly diplomatic resorting instead to fabricate stories and continual denials which eventually became admittance of covering up.
You don’t have a “nutting squad” if you have the capacity to resolve issues fairly and anything perceived as a threat internally would usually meet the wrong end of a gun.

I think part of the problem is that we cannot separate SF/PIRA hand and glove the other problem is we don’t wish to perceive the people’s army as anything else but freedom fighters. The mechanics of internal investigations’ were far from an art form. It would be safe to assume that low level touts or even perhaps some poor bastard that fell out of favour received the death sentence which would be a different kind of cover up protecting the high level agents/touts the ones calling the shots on internal investigation.

This case is complicated and will have its critics lambasting SF/PIRA which is understandable as the then 16 year old would have been grilled probably by high ranking people only as she is a relative of a republican.

It is believable that she might have been coerced into silence for many reasons, PIRA telling people they seen or heard nothing was not uncommon what they meant is open your cakehole and you will be nutted.

I wouldn’t discard the woman and brand her account as rubbish again in my view the interrogators or investigators’ would not have the experience to deal with the issue and worse they would have a bias and other various reasons to gloss over the allegations.

If I had an aneurism I wouldn’t go to a carpenter for a cure and that is basically what the then 16 year old was up against.
Unfortunately high profile cases are played out in the court of public opinion and the now woman has presented a reasonable account and facing off with the politically powerful SF takes a great deal of certainty.

If she was the victim then the Ra made the wrong call there is not much difference in being tied to a chair and interrogated or being a terrified kid dealing with the same mental anguish of being questioned or interrogated the line on that is vague.
It is problematic the rough justice system is/was flawed if the accused was not a member then we could assume the case would have been closed paramilitary style.
Protecting volunteers should not supersede the rights or protection of the victim the act is criminal in nature. If we assume the volunteer was/is guilty then the movement would be protecting a criminal yet other criminal elements were being punished for lesser crimes.

Tain Bo said...

Peter,

my apology on that on that score.

Tain Bo said...

Larry,

that I am, one that landed on your nut.

larry hughes said...

Tain Bo

get back on the medication ASAP we all know what you are like when you stay off it a while. You are delusional AGAIN. As funny as you are, when you 'flip' I doubt anyone is safe. Oh and bye the way, you're not the 'mystery-man' you think you are!

Niall said...

It's a re-run of that pitiful saga of the McCartney murder. Pitiful in that, watching the family being bounced around by every politico was embarrassing to say the least. They were apparently astute to! Political pawns abused by the establishment for ulterior gains. Elections anyone!...repetition of all the same adjectives of condemnation. blah,blah,blah
Actually it's pathetic and as for Cahill...I can't believe that she doesn't see how she is being used. Why did she come out now, again.....reeks of political motivation with no doubt a few shillings thrown in.....like the McCartney's she'll gain nothing....it's always seems to be Belfast republicans who have fucked the Republican movement and it would seem in more ways than one....

larry hughes said...

maybe people are only now beginning to feel confident enough to come forward?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/video-ma%C3%ADria-cahill-meets-compassionate-taoiseach-1.1972617

AM said...

Niall,

so what do you propose people who have been subject to the type of complaint raised by McCartney family/Mairia Cahill should do?

Should they stay silent in order to avoid the allegations of being political footballs? How should they make their case? Seems to me that if the objective is to bring the maximum amount of public scrutiny to bear on your grievance this seems a pretty effective way of going about it. Nothing pathetic about it. I wish we could attract that sort of attention for some of the issues we have raised over the years in relation to say the abuses that have taken place in Maghaberry. I would not let the ball kickers put me off.

People were at times dissuaded from raising the issue of dissenting republicans getting hammerings from the Provisionals because it might be used by "the opponents of the peace process" to their own end. That was pathetic not the attempts to highlight it.

Belfast for sure screwed a lot of people but every brigade area had its share of issues.

Niall said...

AM
What should they do? That is a difficult one to answer within this political morass that is Britain’s 6 counties and her 26 bastard sons. I have no complaints with people highlighting injustices but who they employ to do so and the motives of these people that they employ, are far from demonstrating genuine concern for their woes. They are being used for political gain and that is what I object too. And this blindness with which the victims fall head over heel into screams of desperation, which is also understandable.
Those political parties who are tripping over themselves to stick the knife in couldn’t give a rat’s arse about Robert McCartney nor Maria Cahill but they see her and saw McCartney, as an opportunity to further their own gains. The political parties in the South are panicking over the advancement of SF and any opportunity to undermine that is welcome, no matter what. The DUP couldn’t have asked for a better rod to beat SF with at this current time and are probably euphoric that God should have chosen to throw such a weapon at their feet. Do you really expect me to believe that Robinson is disappointed over the British government’s refusal to include Kincora in its paedophile investigation or that he really genuine has concern for Cahill? If she was a Muslim would he have sent her down the shops first?
As for the victims and their relatives, they should know better, having been at the receiving end of Unionism’s racist bigotry for most of their lives and at the receiving end of the lethargy shown to Northerners from the Southern government except when it is in their interest that is. To come away from these people and state that they were very welcoming is like a fly that has been let loose by a spider claiming that spiders are really nice and are just miss-understood! To me the timing of her public outcry creates a lot of doubt also about her bona fide reasons and on top of all that if we consider the newspaper article about her great Uncle Joe being turned as an agent after being caught molesting a child, which she vehemently denies.....now there-in lies the real truth about the genuineness of the British Security forces. No-one has asked, why did they not arrest him and charge him, why did they see the molesting of a child as an opportunity to advance their war on terrorism and not for the heinous crime that it was, what happened to the victim, was she paid off by British intelligence? Do you think that the British Security forces would have treated her different from her Uncle if the war, was still on?
So what do they do? Certainly I don’t believe that they should harbour a silence to avoid any un-pleasantries that might befall those involved...the intention is the opposite of when attempting to seek justice. But the political atmosphere here has been poisoned by so many insincere and rotten individuals who have polluted all that they touch, that it is virtually impossible to determine how justice can be achieved. Using all means, rotten and insincere as most of these are, is not the answer. Cahill like the McCartney’s will never achieve justice in this political environment – never. Most likely they’ll simply end being alienated and that is the shame of all this.

Niall said...

“Belfast for sure screwed a lot of people but every brigade area had its share of issues.”

Apologies, as I forgot to address this comment in my last mail. What issues are you referring too? Love that term ‘issues’....it fairly depletes the significance and magnitude of the problems at hand and also tends to lessen culpability too. I’m sure Ms Cahill will view her rape as an ‘issue’.
Should you not be willing, for the victim’s sake of course for it is they who really matter isn’t it, to hand over to the ‘proper’ authorities all the information that you have so that justice should be done? After all, with regards to the Belfast Brigade, you did hand over your knowledge of the paedophiles and rapists that SF have hidden within their ranks....haven’t you?!!?!?! It would be totally immoral not to have done so.
Is it not strange that there is not the same volume of embarrassing cover-ups coming from these other brigades? Maybe that is because they didn’t surround themselves with people of such ‘reputable’ pedigrees as the Belfast Brigade has? So many questions and so many hidden answers!

Henry JoY said...

Niall, interesting questions posed and as you say, difficult ones to answer. Your perspective is a thought proving one.

The old adage that 'nothing unites people so much as a common foe' comes to mind. And as such explains the emotionally driven alliances forged in most 'campaigns' regardless of issue and across contexts (Irish Republicans have had some dodgy allies too).
Its fair enough to take a more distanced and pragmatic overview; to pose questions as to the likely efficacy of such actions based on historical review of similar scenarios, and to draw attention to the motives of the 'allies' embraced.

And it takes a 'cold eye' to do all of that.
Paradoxically the individual, that could hold such a position, would have to be somewhat unreasonable themselves not to allow for the 'unreasonableness' of the victims in such scenarios!

Regardless of strategic efficacy and dubious allegiances forged I am of the opinion 'reason' must allow for primal imprinting and cathartic value inherent in such action.

Herding imprints in the human social animal will always demand instinctive 'my enemies enemy is my friend' responses.
I propose that even those possessed of 'the cold eye' when well away from the fire, will respond with similar passion when placed themselves within the burning circle.

AM said...

Niall,

A question snarled in angry tone is more amusing than searching. Thought if nothing else I at least had passed that on to you.

What issues am I referring to? Well, for example the ones you expressed such strong opinions to me on about your own area. The degree to which you were scathing surprised even me. You had exceptionally strong views on issues and you explored ground that others would not touch. I won't breach the privacy of the conversation but if you no longer recall, which is a possibility (and they were not about rape) I can remind you in private.

Whether you were right or wrong I don’t know but you expressed them with conviction and no small measure of passion.

Mairia Cahill will no doubt regard her rape as an issue, a major issue for her and which was never dealt with and which she is determined to address today and which you have some difficulty with for the political reasons outlined by you earlier.

I am not only willing to hand it over I feel obligated to hand it over. But I will not be handing over hearsay, tittle tattle, rumour, stuff that other people assert happened but won’t stand over. Nor would I hand over what a person told me in confidentiality about their experience. Those people have the power of veto about what we might do with what they reveal to us.

Would you not hand over to the statutory agencies up North any solid knowledge you had of rape? Or would you make a case that the authorities are not legitimate and therefore you would feel wrong to hand it over where it involved say a rape by a member of the movement? And if that is the case what then would you do with your knowledge? And I am not talking about what you might have heard but about what you might have known.

Belfast has more than its share of disrepute but trying to isolate it to there understates the problem. People emerging with claims in Louth yesterday underscore that.

I suppose just as Belfast had its fair share of agents, they weren’t all in Belfast. Many but not all the hidden answers are up there.

Tain Bo said...

Larry,

this is the polite version publish it in the andytout news; if you want the other version give me the nod.

I doubt anyone is safe is that just your personal fear an exaggerated made up fictional assumption of the fictional mystery-man nothing mysterious about me. You are an idiot if you believe anyone is anonymous on the internet but then again you probably believe the software protecting your computer delivers what it promises.

oh, and by the way I don’t give a shite about what you know or if your sphincter explodes go try and threaten or imply threat with someone as delicately squeamish as yourself.

larry hughes said...

Tain Bo

it's ok, get back on the medication again, calm down. There there there now, good boy. I have no clue who you are and even less interest. You can hardly be any worse than the rest of us on here. But happily you are about the easiest to wind up.

Niall said...

Henry joy,
Are you asking me to wind my neck in?

Niall said...

AM,
How the hell do you remember the details of that conversation for we both were full and you were on whiskey too....Damn you Sir. We shall once again agree to disagree for if we don't this conversation will have end point

AM said...

Niall,

what you said you said with such conviction, I was in no doubt you believed it. Which made me think about it quite a bit ever since even though I didn't want to believe it. Plus it was novel and nobody had the balls to say it before. So drunk as we were it sort of stuck in my mind.

Do you remember you, me and Bunter all discussing drink driving? And you said it was a Brit law and we said so you would allow drink driving in a united Ireland. You were squirming and fighting your way out of with all sorts of logic while Bunter and me were falling about laughing. Some craic then. Really liked him and was gutted when I learned he had died. The fights I had with him on the football pitch and him racing out of the nets more than once to break my neck. But we were as thick as thieves. But that period with you two stands out as one of the really bright areas back in the day: endless mixing and craic. And you were even more cynical than me!! Then we had wee Rab along with us. Me and you ended up (I was blocked but don't know what you were like) in his house in the Strand one night. Earlier in the day Annie was driving us into Ardoyne and I asked her to let us out as we had arrived and she asked me was I sure as the kerbstones were red white and blue. FFS - talk about getting out of there. So, at times I have a great memory - at other times not a thing can I recall.

AM said...

On the brandy tonight Niall and just switched to the bourbon so I'll remember very little shortly!