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| Queen Elizabeth II greeting Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness (left) during a Northern Ireland-themed reception at Windsor Castle, during the first State visit to the UK by an Irish President. |
Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness
should not attend republican Easter graveside commemorations, former IRA
blanketman Anthony McIntyre has claimed.
Mr McIntyre, a former life prisoner and chief researcher in the Boston College project, said: 'I just don’t see what place a British micro-minister has at the graves of dead republicans.'
Backing earlier calls by Republican Sinn Fein for mainstream republicans to stay away from Easter graveside commemorations, after Mr McGuinness accepted an invitation to attend a state banquet last week in Windsor Castle and toasted the Queen, Mr McIntyre added:
Former IRA man Tommy Gorman said he had “no interest” in calls by Republican Sinn Fein for mainstream republicans not to attend Easter commemorations.
'I am not interested in this biting from the trenches' he said.
A statement from the hardline republican grouping – and signed by Republican Sinn Fein Newry and South Armagh – which was published in a weekly newspaper, said it was directed towards 'the Provos and their leader Martin McGuinness.'
It read:
Republican Sinn Fein was formed in 1986 after a split in Sinn Fein, with some members protesting at the decision to allow members to take their seats in Dail Eireann.
Republican Sinn Fein refuses to reject the use of political violence and has been linked to the Continuity Irish Republican Army and Oglaigh na hEireann (ONH).
Mr McIntyre, a former life prisoner and chief researcher in the Boston College project, said: 'I just don’t see what place a British micro-minister has at the graves of dead republicans.'
Backing earlier calls by Republican Sinn Fein for mainstream republicans to stay away from Easter graveside commemorations, after Mr McGuinness accepted an invitation to attend a state banquet last week in Windsor Castle and toasted the Queen, Mr McIntyre added:
I would endorse the sentiment of RSF. Mr McGuinness is calling for people who carry on the tradition of those in the graves to be jailed as he stands beside the leader of British unionism and the leader of the British police. That doesn’t mean that any armed campaign is right. I think it is wrong as I said before.
Former IRA man Tommy Gorman said he had “no interest” in calls by Republican Sinn Fein for mainstream republicans not to attend Easter commemorations.
'I am not interested in this biting from the trenches' he said.
What one says I would take with a pinch of salt and what the other one says I would take with a pinch of salt. If McGuinness was a republican it would be different. But this man is not a republican.
A statement from the hardline republican grouping – and signed by Republican Sinn Fein Newry and South Armagh – which was published in a weekly newspaper, said it was directed towards 'the Provos and their leader Martin McGuinness.'
It read:
Stay away from the graves of our departed Irish republican volunteers. Your presence and that of your ‘dressed-up’ Brit-loving leader is a contamination of the sacred places where the hunger strikers and other patriots rest.
Republican Sinn Fein was formed in 1986 after a split in Sinn Fein, with some members protesting at the decision to allow members to take their seats in Dail Eireann.
Republican Sinn Fein refuses to reject the use of political violence and has been linked to the Continuity Irish Republican Army and Oglaigh na hEireann (ONH).
This whole charade brings home a few things to me, but what really stands out is the impotence of p.f.rs. Any volunteer in any army that stood up to the might of Brit imperialism had any right thinking mans respect.
ReplyDeleteHowever now we must question, not the morality of these groups, but their capabilities. what is more groups than ever claiming to be oglaigh na hiereann but with no impact. The fact there has never been so much talk of treachery since "21/22 and yet the perpetrators of this treachery have never been safer. The six counties are a place of quiet reflection for occupying soldiers.
It's high time that rank and file of file of these pfr conceded it's potential is ridiculously limited, therefore counter-productive. We need unity within republicanism and we're never going to achieve it while pfr causes divisions.
As far as the oc of the banquet men goes of course he shouldn't be welcome at commemorations but the fact is he will be, the fact is there are thousands of republicans who see this traitor as a hero, a master strategists and all the rest of it. That's were the problem lies we have to present more and more evidence to the youngsters. This site is magic, but we need more to counter the propaganda.
David I understand what you are saying about today's PFRs campaign. The very same arguments were used in 1916, the 40's, 50's & most of the 60's then the pogroms and civil rights marches 'kicked' in. I don't remember if it was on Ted Folkmans blog or Ed's The broken elbow were I read this...but someone made the point that they (PFR) are keeping the 'candle' burning' because they believe that similar scenario to '69 isn't that far away. Very soon PSF will have to sign up to the welfare bil and no matter what way they window dress it, peope are going to be quids out..
ReplyDeleteSpot on Anthony
ReplyDeleteYour right Frankie, the welfare bill is signed, sealed and waiting to be delivered after the council elections.
ReplyDelete"O the rise of the Nazi party"
I think Tommy Gorman has called it correct! It's getting like tweedle Dom and tweedle dee.
ReplyDeleteThey have sold the pass and the have relinquished anything Republican.
That's not to say, that people such as Mackers are not spot pointing out the absolute irony of sellouts flooding to graves.
I think these days we have to question not just the message but the messenger.
SF leadership would hang their own parents out to dry for political/financial gain. Adams did it with his dead dad. After carrying his coffin draped with a tricolour. THAT was merely for the cameras, as always. I don't understand why any of them want to be at Easter parades these days.
ReplyDeleteFrankie, I sympathize with these views and i understand the emotions, however it's time we were realistic, the provos might not have been popular '70& '71 etc but they were fucking ruthless as you have to be if you decide to engage. The modern armed groups have been around since '97 some claim to have been active before although that's disputable the point is a cara these groups offer nothing.
ReplyDeleteI have heard rumours of drug dealing in these pfr organizations, that could be s.f propaganda who knows? but what's definite is they will be infiltrated, controlled, they offer no threat to the British military machine, British economical structures, so whats the point?
As far as i am concerned once there was no retaliation on the Joe o Connor killing that spelled the end of it for me from pfr. I must admit to my shame i was active within s.f groups at the time fund raising and the rest of it and our attitude was they wouldn't dare retaliate, so if armed groups don't invoke some sort of fear the're useless basically that might sound cold but it's realistic.
I think we have to realize it is what it is, there is no conditions for armed propaganda, that's out, Sinn Feins become so extreme in their betrayal of republican principles that there is now no middle ground there has to be a separate republican movement , that holds s.f accountable in a peaceful fashion, a lot of my friends are s.f activists and the're good people they just believe s.f is the best answer ( although for a few the royal visit was a step to far) we have to convince them of the true scale of s.f betrayal. When you've people like Bik telling people s.f doing the right thing people will listen to him. We need to get the thoughts of Anthony, Gerard etc distributed to a further field.
I got fed up telling people to give this site a try, that i printed all relevant articles i could find on
the net to show people. Believe it or not but in the age of the internet a lack of information is still a big problem. Anyway i am slabbering on here Frankie i think that's enough out of me
David,
ReplyDeleteToday's PFRs don't need to plant bombs in London to draw attention to their raison d'etre. They don't even need to pull a tigger. This is the 21st century and the sppoks in suits in Hollywood or GCHQ , they are simply pentesters. If they wanted they could do as much, if not more damage to the British economy with a few keystrokes than they could with planting a spectacular. Throw into the mix it would be cheaper and no loss of life, harder to trace........... I'm not advocating anyone does, I'm simply saying maybe they need simply re-evaluate how they are going to conduct this phase of armed struggle. I remember millions lost by one simple phone call when the provisionals said they had planted a bomb at Ascot..
agree with david here frankie. plus, theres loads of total bone idle bullying extortionists involved now who love the cover of 'armed struggle'. bullyboys and creeps. fuck em.
ReplyDeletegrouch, David...
ReplyDeleteI take on board what yourselves and almost eveyone else is saying about today's PFR's. What would have happened had the RIRA retaliated after the murder of Joe O'Connor? I say a feud would have broken out similar to the Provisional-Official feuds of the 1970's. Who would have benefited? The family of Joe O'Connor? The republican/nationalist community? Loyalism & the Bristish is my guess.
I have a problem when I read about today's PFRs getting called thugs, criminals and a whole lot of other things in between. They are funding themselves more or less how the provisionals done in the past. How does any guerrilla army fund themselves? Going to the credit union for a loan? I didn't hear too many people call the provisionals criminals in Ardoyne when I was a pup. But today I hear republicans call todays PFRs criminals for doing the same thing for the same reason....Where did all the millions go the provisonals made?
I've a problem in getting my head around today's PFRs being labeled as thugs. Maybe people have short memories but this was how the provionals use to police Ardoyne, west Belfast, Derry. Sometimes they called it right and others they got it wrong, people understood why happened and by and agreed with the methods...
During the 80's news reports were calling republicans mafia, god fathers of crime etc.. I didn't think of the provisionals as crime lords as pup and I'm not going to label todays PFRs as a bunch of Dick Turpins in balaclavas.
I think their (PFRs) energies could be better channeled in another way. But calling them thugs etc is a tad more than hypocritical in my world..
Frankie,
ReplyDeleteThere is no armed struggle so you can't go on to the next phase. You have to look at it from the Brits point of view. What have you got here? a couple of shootings a year? thats nothing to worry them, you get that in most global cities. The sad fact is if you want to win a physical war, then you have to hit your enemy regularly. These groups can't do this. So what's the point?
Regarding cyber warfare, i don't know anything about that but i would guess they have proper securities against this or would it not happen all the time?
Any way happy Easter Frankie, and the rest of the tpqers .
Grouch how's yourself? any joy with the work?
Frankie,
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't call them thugs in fact on here before i said and continue to say anyone who volunteers to free Ireland deserve respect. But the fact remains Frankie they are ineffective, no? As far as the thug thing there has been thugs in every army in history, the pressure and the rest of it so they criticisms are always going to exists. i am tired so oiche mhaith.
frankie, no-one wants it now, no-one except mi5 and a few headers. who on earth, with all we know now thanks to net about surveillance touts double agents etc etc, thinks 'armed struggle' is going to get anywhere. the ra was fuc*ed not long after hunger strikes if not even earlier. the resistance and fight put up by people in early 70s really scared brits for a while but they deployed all their expertise in torture and unleashed it on a whole generation of brave young (and not so young) people to devastating effect. evil bastards that they are and always were. i honestly think we were bet years ago. i think we lost politically and militarily a long time ago and im not trying to piss anyone off saying that. i mean look at the last few weeks - ivor bell banged up and martin magoo sucking eggs in windsor. and now the royals might be coming to dublin 2016. holy fuck batman get me out of here. a colony once again.
ReplyDeleteDavid,
ReplyDeleteThere is an armed struggle wether people like it or not. The Provisionals ended theirs, so to did the INLA. The CIRA have been on a war footing since 1986. And in 1998 some republicans didn't agree with the what PSF settled for broke away and they said the war continues. There is an armed struggle, it may be futile, with out much support. But there is still an armed struggle.
I don't buy into any of the three factions being as penetrated as people think. The British don't need to spend that kind of money today. All they need is a Dennis Donaldson or Scap in each group, throw in some hi tech gadgets and have hoods, anti social elements be their eyes and ears.
What made the British Government sit up and listen was when the city of London was turned into a building site (part of the reason). I read somewhere and it could have been here that a PFR need to become is simpy like a flea in the ear of a dog that they can't scratch and in the end say "and the British will say "fcuk it , we're out of here'. I also said it's possible to do as much, if not more damage to banks etc with a few key strokes than you could with a ton of fertilizer mix.t If you shoot dead someone you get life in prison. If you hack a system you get life. Diffeence is there is no blood shed. no familes left with out a loved one..
The pentesters..Al they are people who went to university and did a BA in compturer science or something instead of a business degree.. In the 1970's & 80s some republicans got degrees in accountacy etc and used that knowledge to launder and hide money or they set up business fronts for the provisionals...Wasn't it Brain Keenan who tapped the telephone exchange imagine what he'd got up to if the internet was around then...
ivor bell banged up and martin magoo sucking eggs in windsor. and now the royals might be coming to dublin 2016
ReplyDeleteIvor bell is out on bail grouch. And we know he shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. The only thing I've read that connects Ivor Bell to Jean McConville is what I have read in 'Voices'. I have read in several places Gerry Adams ordering her death and he is free to walk the streets.
During the Haass talks The Northern Ireland Retired Police Officers' Association threw on the table a 64 page document that said..
they could be forced to reveal information which would undermine the peace process during any truth commission into Northern Ireland's past.
And this...
The submission makes it clear that the body represents officers who have been involved in what was known as the "shoot to kill" policy
I don't see too much fuss being over the RUC past....Why isn't Gerry Kelly breaking balls at policing board meetings for the file the NIRPOA have? But they'll let the PSNI go after an old comrade????
Grouch a few weeks back on the Falls Road joyriders ran amok. It was advertised on FB in advance. The PSNI did nothing to stop it. PSF who's patch it happened on didn't stop it. I bet they'd do all they could toady to gain votes. Maybe they think people have short memories.
Here is an old documentary you should watch grouch watch. It's about how the RM dealt with hoods during the mid 1980's. And it's worth taking 40mins out of your day to watch. There is a victim who got a severe beating by the Provisionals in the documentary called Sean Dunlop. He was a hood. If my memory serves me him and a few of his friends were paid visits. And the spate of joy riding and house break in stopped over night.
The last part tells the story of a Derry informer...And the man of moment plays center stage.
Frankie,
ReplyDeleteIf they are not penetrated as people think and they are on a war footing why are they so ineffective?. The provos had to deal with touts, anti social element and all the rest of it and they were still a force to be reckoned with. I go back to what i said before if they are not hitting their enemies regularly and damagingly then it's pointless.
The fact is armed republicans have lost respect in republican circles so a change of tact is needed the political landscape has moved on like it or not.
David,
ReplyDeleteThe fact is armed republicans have lost respect in republican circles
I suspect even republicans that disagree with the use of physical force, respect those who maintain a military footing. (I don’t mean SF republicanism)
It could be argued one weakness of the Provisionals era was that recruits often joined for emotional, rather than ideological reasons i.e. the need to protect their community or to seek retribution against the BA. These are understandable reactions, but leads to a weak underpinning for a Movement, such that small modifications in the Brits behaviour can nullify opposition to their presence. Individual volunteers may have performed heroics after joining for emotional reasons (Bobby Sands etc), but one view is that today offers a more solid foundation for the Movement as a whole.
Daithi,
ReplyDeleteHow you doing? I can't see how not been emotionally involved can be possible in a volunteer army, the incentive will always be an emotional dream. We can have philosophical debates forever and a day on how is the best environment for revolutionary armies but the fact is there is no solid support for pfr and i can't see that changing. I think part of the reason is pfr don't look capable of challenging the status quo.
Thanks David, I don’t doubt the communal support is not what it was in the 70’s. Its worth remembering too that whilst Pearse was barricading the roads outside the GPO, others in the community were looting those same barricades for sellable materials.That shouldn’t be the measure of whether PFR is justified or not.
ReplyDeleteOf course there will be an emotional involvement, but I think movements based on that premise carry with them the seeds of their destruction. Admittedly I appear to be alone in thinking this, it seems rational to me at least.
Daithi,
ReplyDeleteIt is rational, the problem is human beings en masse are anything but rational. If we based movements on a sound ideology and justice then we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. The problem lies in the fact that most of us don't react until our family, community is threatened. if the unionist treated catholics with a shred of decency we probably wouldn't be haven't conversations about unification never mind actions. It is what it is Daithi and i think we have to work within these parameters no matter how frustrating.
I don't know if i am making sense here basically what i am trying to say is you have to acknowledge what the climate is and right know there is no room for military actions.
David I agree there is no room for armed actions, it would be foolish for anyone to argue otherwise on a public blog.It was the issue of respect I tried to clarify.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the correction David about you not calling PFR thugs, mafia etc...
ReplyDeleteIf they are not penetrated as people think and they are on a war footing why are they so ineffective?.
We both know there are a few variables David as why they are not as effective as the Provisionals. One part is Gerry Adams & Co left the arms store severly depeleted. There is also more co-operation between countires and the sharing of intelligence. The advance of technology. How many people today don't have a smart phone? They are tracking devices plain and simple.
Here is another for instance. They (PSNI) evecuate a street or three because there is an un exploded pipe bomb and a spook walks into a house of someone he's snooping on. Maybe the spook didn't plant a bug but simpy turned on the family PC and installed a keg logger for example it"s a spooky world ? The person is allowed back into his house, does a sweep, no almrms sound and he drops his guard.. I'm sure Anthony said that when the powers that be took The Blankets 'puter away for a few days, and then he got it back, he never touched it again.
. I go back to what i said before if they are not hitting their enemies regularly and damagingly then it's pointless.
Hitting them in what way David? Shooting dead polics and army personnel? Panting bombs? As I said the Provisionals were able to put the republican question on the top of the agenda in 1997 with a 10p phone call. And no loss of life. For talk sake todays PFRs kill a police man or three or they explode a few car bombs. Then what more security measaures, more disruption. And aren't republicans saying the Provisional school of mindless violence was conter productive to what Irish Republicanism is about? It is possible to make the six counties economical unviable with out one trigger being pulled.
If you break your leg for example after 6-8 weeks its almost as good as new. Hit anyone in the pocket hard enough all they'll have is the shirt on their back.
The fact is armed republicans have lost respect in republican circles so a change of tact is needed the political landscape has moved on like it or not.
How much respect did the rising of 1916 actually have? I don't mean the aftermath. How much support did the border campaign have? The political landscape. Fionnuala had this to say about the political landscape last week
Prisoners convicted of political offences will have equal entitlement to jobs, house insurance, car insurance or availability to travel? Sixteen years after that Agreement we still have none of these.On an interview form, even today and it is similar on courses. The conviction box will ask about criminal offences, there is no stipulation for political offence why?
il watch that again frankie. ireland is completely fuc*ed right now - completely - the freestate gave away 540 billion of oil and gas and theres fuck all protests about it bar a few brave people who got their heads kicked in by pigs and put out of business by shell paramilitary thugs, owe the banks so much children not yet born will be paying this 'debt' and meanwhile people are creaming their knickers that the royals mite be here for 2016. ireland needs a shrink not armed struggle, we are a fucking basket case now and need something different or we will not be taken seriously or be respected. personally i think ireland was murdered over a few centuries culminating in genocide of 1845-50 were over 4 million people starved to death as british troops took out food under armed guard. ive met one too many me fein wanker in my 43 years in freestate to have much hope for this place. the problem isnt the british, its the fuc*ing irish do my head in. happy easter.
ReplyDeletegrouch you could be right and the genetic make up that once made us Irish was wiped out durning the famine periods. I think there are still pcokets of us out there who haven't fallen for their double speak and slight of hand tricks. Wth the elections on both sides of the border. Maybe no one on the island should vote. Ireland would still work. People would still be paid. Happened in Belgium.
ReplyDeletepeople died for us to have the right not to vote and everyone i meet i tell them not to vote from here on in. also i reckon its about as 'radical' a thing most people in 26 counties would do coz they certainly wont storm the gates. and yes i fear u are right about genetic destruction of the gaels. and happy easter frankie me ol segocia.
ReplyDeleteGrouch
ReplyDeleteI saw the SF parades on tv and Heard a wee bit of Andersons rant. Just leaves me shaking my head in dismay. It also destroys my faith in politics.
happy easter larry. im not even going to check that out. yes my faith is destroyed too but i see a small ray of light-hope with the internet. at least we can communicate with each other and put our own slant on things out there. imagine if we didnt have this. i for one wud be stuck in the corner of a pub somewhere fighting with meself.
ReplyDeleteFrankie,
ReplyDeleteHope you had a good weekend. I understand armed republicans were never popular throughout history. The thing for me is with a large grouping of republicans following s.f betrayal the scenario for a capable armed struggle no longer exists.
About the voting situation i don't think we should vote anyway both the 26 and 6 county governments go against the proclamation therefore in my mind are illegal British dominated puppet governments. The 26 county track record of standing up to the Brits is deplorable. Both of these governments have no legitimacy for me. I have never voted in my life and don't intend to.
David my weekend wasn't bad until I heard about Utd's defeat (wasn't really surprised but none the less it hurt).
ReplyDeleteMaybe someone can help me understand this..it seems wrong..Basically why was Mary Lou choosen to be the main speaker at an event to commerate the founding of Cumann na mBan. Wouldn't it have
been more credible for PSF to at least have Martina Anderson as the main speaker. At least she's from that part of the world and was once an IRA volunteer.
What have Mary Lou and Alice Milligan got in common politically? I can't see much at all..Cumann na mBan were anti-treaty..