The Republican Movement isn't a social club. Those who tried, and continue to try, to turn it in to a social club, a place of antics and perpetual social fun learn one thing and that is disrespect, no different than in the home. The man whose honour rests at the bar has no value at all and the names synonymous with Republicanism today all learned their honour in a social club and not on the streets with their people. For years people occupying the vacuum left by the Provisional Irish Republican Army proved one thing and that has been the professionalism, discipline and integrity of Provisional Irish Republican Army structures were not an organic mechanism but the product of a highly motivated, credible, loyal and fearless membership proud of their movement, proud of their leaders: and most of all the people were proud of them.
Mimicking this, attempting to jump on the back of the party atmosphere created by early releases and cessations, or share in an adulation earned through almost 500 ultimate sacrifices and thousands of years gaol blinded people to what had earned the IRA respect.
30 years of being heckled, abused, beaten, spat at, 30 years of dying, killing - and killing is harder than dying in the Irish psyche and that is a fact - 30 years of being marginalised, segregated, brutalised and gaoled, the constant unrelenting pressures of war, broken homes, graveyards and public houses, pictures on walls.
After those 30 years there was a party atmosphere because the pain and misery had ended, so people celebrated and the masks could come off and ex-POWs could be "RA" and people could speak about it and this ethos developed that led us to now.
Young boys believing they could achieve that status before fighting a war or engaging in a political campaign, a belief that thuggery or menace is the equivalent to selfless sacrifice, or that serving time for futility is the same as having engaged credibly. I fucking learned the hard way it isn't the same at all.
The consequence of that ethos has done terrible damage to Republicanism in general but the ethos is being obliterated: it turned in on itself. Those cleaning up the mess should be commended, but people trying to justify any of the main protagonists just because they could sing a song or hold a debate would do well to remember - Robert Nairac could sing the Broad Black Brimmer in Drumintee.
I don't believe anyone was ever fooled by the people who dragged us down. But sure that’s it done and dusted now, near enough. Hopefully it never happens again.
Antaine,
ReplyDeletewelcom to TPQ. A thought provoking article that is being well read at the minute. Thanks for submitting it.
I'm hoping so. Were going to trip over our own feet for not tying up our laces.
DeleteAntaine-
ReplyDeleteI thought it mostly a good write also though a wee bit defeatist-
There were several years during the war where the RA were thought of as the best thing since sliced bread-I remember one night in the 80s when two of them walked into a gaelic club which had a bar and the place erupted with cheers-they put their AKM and Armalite behind the bar and had a few drinks-a mask was never heard tell off that night or on many other occasions-it did change later on especially in the early 90s when every family thought they were going to be butchered by the loyalists/brits-but the Provos came through again with the big jobs in England and before you could say Peace-there was peace-
Michaelhenry,
ReplyDeletebefore you could say peace there was partition!! Bet you didn't buy them any of the pints you miserable cur!!!
Very confusing piece. In fact with all due respect I read the first part a few times and couldn't make head nor tail of it.
ReplyDeleteThe author like so many others, in particular the sheepish membership of PSF, seems to believe that the membership of PIRA as a whole remained with Adams.
That couldn't be further from the truth. We are scattered far and wide, labelled 'Dissidents' quite a few of us are outspoken yet independent or are members of various Republican groups.
However many remain in the background, silent and disillusioned by sell out and treachery.
I would be against armed struggle at this moment in time. It is clearly taking us nowhere. In fact it is breathing life into PSF at a time when they have nothing else but the so called peace process to keep them going.
Republicans are abandoning PSF at a rate which must be alarming them and we saw an example of this on 'The View' last Thursday.
What is needed is foresight and leadership at a time which is ripe for the regrowth of Republicanism.
Well Said, and Well Put. republicans in the likes of, Kevin Barry, Brendan Hughes, and Tom Barry are shining examples for this generations republicans to try and strive for.
ReplyDeleteThe Author is well aware of the trajectory of struggle. Indeed the Author has written to seek an understanding of why this membership, who although being "scattered far and wide" and considering their experience, have failed where their leaders did not. Jimmy Steele, Billy McKee all of them surely sat back disillusioned but they didn't oversee or promote futility, when they returned they garnered success through momentum - sitting on your hands blaming Sinn Féin wont justify the state the Republican movement fell in to or the ethos currently being deconstructed.
ReplyDeleteWhat is needed is foresight and leadership at a time which is ripe for the regrowth of Republicanism.
ReplyDeleteDixie, I think it's already started. By the simple fact, people are openly questioning what does it mean to be a republican. Republicanism...Alive or dying
I'm so glad I am not the only person confused by this piece.
ReplyDeleteI too read it several times and failed to understand exactly what was being said.
Now, that I have read the bit about Jimmy Steele and Billy Mc Kee the confusion has deepened?
I didn't find the piece confusing. I think it was a very direct criticism of today's armed struggle component which the writer feels is engaged in something that is anything but serious war making. I think some of the criticism is too scattered but that does not invalidate the argument that is being made. Now, whether the argument is right is another matter. But it seemed clear enough to me.
ReplyDeleteThe piece evolved from a general discussion regarding the past 5 years, from the perspective of prisoners who have served sentences unrecognised or consumed by the general confusion of this era. From the exiles, the slander campaigns and the fragmentation to the media portrayal of contemporary Republicanism. It is not to cast blame elsewhere but accept a collective responsibility for the failures we have participated in or over seen. The focal point of much Republicanism seems to have been the social and not the street and what qualifies as legitimate needs to be reassessed.
ReplyDeleteNuala,
ReplyDeleteI think his point about Billy and Jimmy is that they only went to war when they felt there was a chance of making some headway. They were part of the phsical force tradition but that tradition didn't always engage in armed action. For much of the time it was not at war but on ceasefire. Armed struggle was not a persistent activity but used periodically. It seems clear the writer knows the SF leadership sold out but wonders what howling at it does in terms of strategic advancement.
Mackers,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't sure what was being said about who?
When I thought I had grasped it, I seemed to lose the thread of it again.
Obviously your explanation helped!
AM
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment in your 11:03 comment. Patience is a vital element of revolutionary struggle and it is often difficult to master. History is littered with times when there was not much more comrades could do than endure, and await better days.
That is not to say one goes home and shuts the door on the outside world. One continues to organise, etc and build on the past until a new wind blows which opens up a viable chance of success.
Personally, I didn't find this article confusing at all. Indeed, I think Antaine Mac Dhomhnaill's main point is fairly straightforward: in his experience, there is a stark contrast between the "the professionalism, discipline and integrity of the Provisional Irish Republican Army" and the futile, "social club" ethos of the current armed republican groups. People might take issue with that for all sorts of reasons, but it is a coherent idea nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteAntaine goes on to argue that the young men joining these organisations have mistaken "serving time for nothing" for "having engaged credibly". More ominously, he hints at the "thuggery or menace" associated with some armed republican activities.
Overall, I think it's a good article which captures very well the sense of disillusionment most political activists feel at some point in their lives.
Alfie Gallagher,
ReplyDeleteThank you for a coherent explanation of the piece, I would like to add that this is more of a plea than a rebuking to those I accept are engaged in attempts to eradicate a negative ethos Nationally.
These thoughts are a request for legitimate political momentum to build and to supersede futile populist militarism, so committed young Republicans are not lured in to the belief "anything is better than nothing" and are not forced to make a sacrifice irrespective of how noble it is, that achieves nothing only misery and loss and also that the contrived are barred from participation by the standard and example set.
Deliberately no-one in particular is mentioned as imo we are all "the one" whether we like it or not, and as such we all share as individuals and as a collective, in the corrupt expression of despair post defeat emasculation is.
As regards Sinn Féin I no longer associate them with the IRA. They endorse and promote the Union with England as the legitimate constitutional position of 6 Irish Counties and therefore are constitutionally a Unionist party. I apologise for not making that position clear in the piece.
Antaine McDhomhnaill-
ReplyDelete" As regards Sinn Fein I no longer Associate them with the IRA "
Which means that you did Associate
Sinn Fein with the IRA during the war-the only time it mattered-why would anyone care about being associated now a days with a group that no longer exists-
Michael Henry,
ReplyDeleteIt means simply that I once associated Sinn Féin with the IRA but as Sinn Féin severed themselves, through their own choices, from the aims and objectives of the IRA then I can no longer do so. Not historically or presently.
Your denying the existence of the/an IRA that is apart from Sinn Féin is a meaningless futile debate separate from reality which I am not prepared to legitimize.
I recognise the rights and existence of others. Accepting the existence of others I ask that if a sacrifice is to be made then those proposing that sacrifice honour the sanctity of the cause by refusing to commit to anything unless it is credible, capable and likely to succeed.
Antaine,
ReplyDeletedon't worry about Michaelhenry. He gives stick to veeybody and gets stick from everybody. But at the end of the day he is by this stage as much a part of TPQ as the rest of us and things just wouldn't be the same without him. I think he claims it is the only site he has never been banned from!!
AM
ReplyDeleteAs odd as it may sound I believe I have a relationship with Michael elsewhere! A quite endearing and at times enraging character the republican part of cyberspace would be lost without. lol
Antaine,
ReplyDeleteJust as a matter of interest do you think the war was fought exclusively by men.
That's not a criticism, I just wonder when I read these pieces why the language is always male centred.
Women appear to be invisible at times and I just wonder is it an oversight ?
Fionnuala Perry,
ReplyDeleteNot at all and I appreciate you marking this point out as I genuinely believe that the male dominance exhibited in contemporary republicanism is another display of something being wrong. The analysis required that was always provided by people like Máire Drumm Miriam Daly etc is lacking today and I believe that female comrades have been excluded from full participation as a consequence of "machoism" being the dominant gene, particularly in the 26 Counties. Perhaps this machosm results from the lack of politics present and the pursuance of power and prestige men seem to suffer from more.
Antaine,
ReplyDeleteI don't know if it is contemporary or just interwoven into conservative, backward Ireland, but it's annoying.
The 'boys', the 'lads'
I just asked because sometimes people are not actually aware of it ?
So thank you for an honest response.
Antaine:
ReplyDelete"I recognise the rights and existence of others. Accepting the existence of others I ask that if a sacrifice is to be made then those proposing that sacrifice honour the sanctity of the cause by refusing to commit to anything unless it is credible, capable and likely to succeed."
I agree with that. We are at the same point as we were when the capaign started, after all the deaths , Wounded ,Interned , Tortured , and not forgetting ten Brave Hunger Strikers, all for SF to sign up to the wee 6c as still being under British Rule.
I would say that another Military Campaign could be 10 to 30 years away, Education comes to the forefront and it is needed more than ever for proper planning and expertise in all aspects of War. I have always stated that if a vote for a united Ireland was won, The Loyalist communities would arm themselves to the teeth and attempt to rain terror in every Nationalist Area , they are so indoctrinated that they are British , there's no telling people like that , They were born on the Island of Ireland, Thus they are Irish, No Matter what the say or think. Patience is a virtue!.
michaelhenry:
Her's one for yee , I heard a rumour that a request was put to an Islamic Organization for the loan of 500 suicide Bombers during the conflict , a reply was received , We are wiling to train your fighters and supply same vests as worn by our own Martyrs. Is that correct!!!!!!!. lol
Fionnuala ;
ReplyDeleteWhen I read in the Footsteps of Anne I did not recognise the Movement the POW's were discussing and felt the era they explained was extremely more progressive than is now the case for women; I believe that the presence of Revolutionary politics had liberated men and empowered Women but now that the lack of Revolutionary politics is excluding young women from the struggle, I say young because veteran Republican women would not tolerate exclusion.
itsjustmacker:
Around the world examples are provided of what is required, from the Zapatista's "Little schools of revolution" to FARC's Community Councils.
There is a steady rebuilding ongoing which is evidenced, not so much by the crowds gathering, but the sentiments expressed at the gravesides of our martyred dead.
Two orations which featured here stand out both of them from the gravesides of Dominic and Mary McGlinchy.
The 1st discussed Dominic McGlinchey refusing to "conform to the can't do club" and the second "Eulogy in Bellaghy" explained something which needs publicizing more and that is the difference between a military aggression based upon revolutionary knowledge and just simple aggression.
Without the politics menace and thugary become equal currency to tenacious commitment and leads to the wrong ethos becoming dominant.
There is little doubt Loyalists would mobilize, the Union has never been so secure and still they mobilize!
itsjustmacker-
ReplyDeleteThe movement never believed in suicide bombers or their ilk-it is a sin for a catholic to commit suicide-don't laugh-[ I know the movement was not filled with Catholics ]-
I always thought Suicide bombers got it too easy-I know they blew themselves up in a blast but there fear ended in that moment-plus the cheap fcuks did not have to hijack
getaway cars or go back to their arms dumps or escape the long arm of the brits-so sorry to let you down-but it never happened-I always looked down on the suicide bombers truth be told-
Antaine,
ReplyDelete"As odd as it may sound I believe I have a relationship with Michael elsewhere! A quite endearing and at times enraging character the republican part of cyberspace would be lost without. lol"
Yep, I've known Michael on TPQ and Facebook for the best part of three years now. He is a wind-up merchant par excellence, but at the same time, he's never said an unkind word to me no matter how much vitriol I poured on him. He sounds like a great man to have a pint or twenty with, plus he seems to have an in-depth knowledge of Amsterdam's red light district!
Antaine,
ReplyDeleteWomen were always excluded.
We fought as hard for our recognition as we did for anything else.
I could count on one hand the progressive thinking men within the Republican movement.
A thought provoking piece alright Antaine, thanks for posting. Perhaps this isn't the right forum so to be clear I'm not trying to have people compromise their opposition to partition but I'd be interested to know the opinions on this electoral requirement to tick 'Northern Ireland' and how people view this in the context of the current rebuilding efforts. It seems to have caught a lot of people on the hop
ReplyDeleteFionnuala, I read you often rightly correct or perhaps more correctly remind contributors of the role of women in Republican struggle and the tendancy to write with a male voice when a neutral one is more appropriate. I've been guilty of linguistic slips as much as others.
ReplyDeleteWhile not relevant to this thread I'll deviate and ask a few questions - thankfully Anthony allows a bit of deviancy. I've recently been reading some radical left material on debates between Trots and radical left feminists on the oppressive factors mainly particular to women including rape, harassment and enforced (by force or tradition) gender roles.
The Trots seem to see capitalism as the causative factor in all oppression of women as they see it as the central component of all oppression. Whereas radical left feminists seem to state men themselves are a bigger factor in oppression of women than capitalism, imperialism or anything else.
Is this a subject you've given thought to? I'd be interested in a republican woman's view on if the sex based oppression they face has it's roots in the general male psyche or is rooted in capitalism and imperialist societal attitudes.
Also, do you see a role for radical feminism either within or separate to republican groupings? I am aware of the struggle women had for full inclusion in armed resistance. Did that advance a feminist position or dilute radical women in a male dominated almost patriarchal structure?
I personally lean towards the RM being in most cases masochinistic with tokenistic concern for the additional oppression society accepts on women and to a feminist position that its not 'the man' holding women further down but just the men be they capitalist, imperialist or in most case revolutionary.
Again sorry for going so far off topic.
Best. KH
Antaine,
ReplyDeleteReturning to your blog I initially like some others found it difficult to decipher your key points and appreciated the clarifications.
I find myself in agreement with you. I've mentioned before I find the idea of pursing armed struggle in the current circumstances as wrong, immoral and contrary to any possible definition of a just war.
The motivations of many of those supportive may be sound but they are based on denying the reality of the world we live in.
I consider republicans to have two legitimate choices:
1. To create or wait for the conditions for legitimate armed rebellion
2. To wage an unarmed republican campaign
Doing either of these from a barstool or application of fear into communities rather than gaining genuine respect for taking a hard path is counterproductive
Fionnuala Perry:
ReplyDeleteIt is depressing to hear a revolutionary movement failed in this manner by possessing so few progressive thinkers; I genuinely would like to read a woman's view on the questions posed by Kev;
Kev O'Higgins:
1. To create or wait for the conditions for legitimate armed rebellion
2. To wage an unarmed republican campaign
I believe both these options are the same. I contend that no Republican Campaign is being waged due to a dearth of political revolutionary activity; Nation building is non-existent and the dominant has been the militant. The militant bereft of the Political is anti-Republican.
The non-politically based militant being pervasive and self destructive, as without politics, without revolution we have evolved into futility whereby progressive thought has been replaced by the currency of menacing aggression and a "rut" mentality, I see this as the political equivalent of an abuse cycle; Violence ; Prison ; apathy ; alienation back to Violence and it reigns without break being based in unanalysed defeat.
An unarmed republican campaign would be the construction of revolution anew, it would be the eradication of perceived and misguided continuity.
I believe sadly there is no continuity with the past as it was meticulously broken by an extremely sinister, murderous and evil British policy- endorsed and propelled by people posing as Republican leaders.
This is more than a demand, were it to occur properly, if the revolution was to be rebuilt purely on principle truth, honour and in the interests of the people then the conditions for armed struggle are imposed, as the British and Free State governments would be forced to suppress the people's choice. The last option would become armed struggle which it always should be...
Fionnuala-
ReplyDelete" I could count on one hand the progressive thinking men within the Republican movement "
And I can count on one foot the progressive thinking women within
the Republican movement-
You hear them go on about how more woman should be promoted-[because they are woman ] but you never hear them saying that a young lad
should be promoted even though he could be ten times the better thinker/speaker than her-[and this is not a them and us opinion-its fact-]-
Kev,
ReplyDeleteI would go with the Radical Left. I think the oppression of women is woven into the fabric of society.
Patriarchy is ubiquitous, there are few societies were women are on equal footing.
What I find incredibly sad, is women's oppression is not just simply carried out by men.
As a young Republican I felt we were persecuted by older women in cumman na mban .
We were practically morally policed. I knew women who were dismissed for getting pregnant while the men remained.
My Da was a feminist, therefore my first experience of been treated different amongst men totally threw me.
I just wonder when I read interesting well put together pieces ( even if I had to get it explained) are the people who write them aware of the male language?
Michael Henry,
What you are speaking about are features of positive discrimination and ambition, hardly the same thing as oppression.
Antaine the progressive, responsive political movement you seem to hark after already exists in the form of the 1916 Societies - the fastest growing political movement in Ireland. My suggestion is that you get involved in your local Society and help rebuild republicanism in just the kind of way you're advocating. It's already happening so come on board. If I've correctly deduced where you're from my suggestion is you speak to Fergie, if you haven't already
ReplyDeleteSeán Bres,
ReplyDeleteIndeed your own writings and your local society have been providing examples of progressive revolutionary though which I in turn see being implemented in Ardoyne though Fergie's unrelenting commitment to street activism and the Ardoyne success rate at effecting radical change. The evidence that a rebuilding is possible is present in the Society example in some of the 6 Counties I agree.
My judgement has been greatly affected by my Prison experience and what has passed for Republicanism in the 26 Counties, it is affected by the presence of former leading Provisional's who have yet to inspire belief that what they settled for before, they would not settle for again. It is affected by my belief ego, elistism, quests for power, prestige and greed survive a process aimed at eradicating them and that the Irish People, the Irish Republican people are being lied to by Northern Republicans regarding events in the 26 Counties.
I believe the egos, and the lies for the sake of populism are an example of a pervasive ethos being retained, I find it sickening that anyone would want to mimick the Provisional movement considering the evidence they allowed Hunger Strikers to die, and ended as the greatest failure ever put down in Ireland's history.
There is a debate to be had on a position, a constitution and a definitive aspiration. Do we return to the Traditional Republican position of the Pre-86 Republic or advocate a purely internationalist Marxist solution.
When Ciaran Nugent refused Prison Garb it was inherent, within him when Bobby Sands wrote "I believe in the right of the Irish Nation to Sovereign independence and the right of every Irish man and woman to assert that right in armed revolution, when the Mansion House broke, or Falcarragh split, a constitution existed that could not be disputed, only betrayed.
When people can explain why that is no longer the case and further explain why no advance has been made to rectify it, why dormant militancy makes more headlines than community projects then we are making serious headway.
Fionnuala,
ReplyDeleteYou rightly identify the existence of male dominant societies prior to the emergence of the Capitalist economics. I think this answers the question and supports the feminist case for gender based oppression and exploitation. Of course, capitalism both supports and promotes the inequality between the sexes because it is an exploitative social order dominated by men.
Sean bres-
ReplyDeleteAny comment about what the 1916 Society spokesperson Cllr Barry Monteith said about policing in this weeks Ulster Herald-
He said that it is up to young Catholics to decide for themselves whether they should join the PSNI or not-surly a major climb down by the Societys-
michaelhenry:
ReplyDeleteFree training and free weapons!.
A lot of volunteers joined the BA just for that purpose, completed basic 12 training, went on permanent leave with their weapons!, Sean Garland was one of many.
Alec,
ReplyDeleteI think religion also played a major role.
Once they planted poor Eve in that garden it was literally amen.
Then, when they upped the tempo that only men were made in 'Gods image and likeness'
It was all over bar the punching, kicking, burning and the odd drowning.
What's to get Michael? The 1916 Societies are unequivocally opposed to Britain's security forces including PSNI/RUC, you'll not hear Barry or anyone else calling on young nationalists to join PSNI a la Gerry Kelly and Francie Molloy this week. I prefer this quote from what Ba had to say...
ReplyDelete“As far as I am concerned the PSNI remain an instrument of British rule in Ireland."
In terms of the Societies themselves it's written into our constitution that those "who endorse British rule and the crown forces in Ireland" are to be excluded from membership. Guess that includes your lot so there'll hardly be a reunion anytime soon.
Your suggestion that Barry Monteith would or had somehow softened his stance on policing holds no water and you know it - but nice try. A right wee bit of mixing going on this past while, I wonder why! Martina Purdy might give you the answer if you give her a shout
Sean bres-
ReplyDelete" you'll not hear Barry or anyone else calling on young nationalists to join PSNI ]"-
I never said he told them to join-
I said that he told young Catholics
that it was up to themselves to join-this is far removed from telling Catholics to stay away from the PSNI-
A Stance has softened-the dissos will be after your lot next-
Fionnuala : "What you are speaking about are features of positive discrimination and ambition, hardly the same thing as oppression." Not only are they not the same thing they are to all intents and purposes opposites.
ReplyDeletePositive discrimination and ambition which is tolerated help remove oppression.
I am sad to hear that there were so few progressive Republicans but the mismanagement of investigations into things like the abuse of women (which was mooted on the quill a few times) or the length of time it took to accommodate women into the same structures perhaps points towards this. I was going to quote Michael Henry's comment as an example of sexism but I am afraid to as there is a chance he was only trying to push people's buttons.
You're clutching at straws Mickeyboy but if it helps you feel better about your party's position, which deep inside you must know is wrong, then well and good
ReplyDeleteSimon,
ReplyDeleteMH must be getting bossed about by those Sinn Fein women.