Pauline Mellon with a few thoughts on the internment of Marian Price, whioch appeared as a letter in the Irish News on the 7th February 2013.
In 1998 here in the north we were promised a 'new beginning.' The Good Friday Agreement voted for by the people was to bring that 'new beginning.'
The agreement promised 'measures compatible with a normal peaceful society' and an era in which justice would be done and would be seen to be done.
Nearly 15 years after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement Marian Price McGlinchey is the victim of administrative internment. Marian was bailed by the courts but sent to prison at the whim of the British Secretary of State who alleged Marian had breached the terms of the licence she was released from prison on in 1980. This licence was overridden by the Royal Prerogative of Mercy (pardon) Marian received shortly after her release.
When this point was raised the authorities claimed the pardon document was either lost or shredded in 2010. Surprisingly, the British government claim to know the content of the missing pardon yet have failed to produce evidence to substantiate their claim. So how can the authorities make a decision based upon the contents of a document they have not seen? Oddly enough a number of copies of the 13th century Magna Carta still exist yet we are expected to believe that a royal pardon issued in 1980 is missing from government archives with no other copy to be found. This is the only pardon in the history of the British Monarchy to go missing.
Since her arrest in May 2011 Marian has been held in isolation and as a result is very ill. It would seem that the Northern Ireland Assembly is conspiring with the British government to intern Marian and others using methods that contravene the European Convention on Human Rights. The Good Friday Agreement was to have instilled a hope of a 'normal peaceful society' yet any reasonable and rational person would surely agree that internment has no place in any 'normal peaceful society,' or in any society that claims to promote democracy.
In closing, I would like to draw the attention of those elected to public office to the very poignant words of the American author Mark Twain 'The government is merely a servant, merely a temporary servant.'
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Pauline:
ReplyDeleteDon't believe for one minute that the Royal Pardon has been shredded or can't be found,That document is well hidden so no one can see the truth that Marian has a FULL PARDON and the British , after Lying about it, Don't want it to be seen, It will be filed under MI5/MI6/DO NOT OPEN:TOP SECRET.
You are correct about those MLA's, The GFA was either Manufactured for SF by MI5, or, Partly, Adams , McGuinness and Kelly got and planned to get onto the ARMY COUNCIL, that way they could out vote and get what they planned, a complete sell out of Comrades , Weapons for their own political positions, Back Stabbing scum and habitual liars.They call for the release of Marian out of one side of their mouths, and , bad mouth her out of the other, I have to thank those MLA's who were able to Get Marian out for those few hours to be with her family and say goodbye to Dolours,(RIP).
Your Reference to Mark Twain will not fall on SF ears, because, They will say, We are in , until voted out,and we can do what we want, don't tell us what to do, we tell you what to do, Now that's how I read it. They (SF) have not mentioned Internment once at that Carsonite House on the Hill (Stormont), and the problem is, we don't have a viable alternative to Vote For, and SF know that. I won't insult your intelligence what we believe GFA stands for. MI5 and the NIO have a lot to answer for Regarding Marian and the others.
Britain lost the argument when they introduced internment in 71 and the pain and misery that followed will leave a scar that will take generations to heal, as Pauline has pointed out in her excellent post internment has no place in a normal peaceful society,once again the brits are losing the argument by interning Irishmen and women,with the massive amount of public money that the security services alongside the psni/ruc receive all all the modern technology at their disposal one would imagine that if their was any evidence to warrant the detention of Marian and Martin then surely they would be able to find and produce it in a court of law ,justice must be seen to be done, we have had to much of the other kind here for far to long ..
ReplyDelete" It would seem that the Northern Ireland Assembly is conspiring with the British government to intern Marian.."
ReplyDeleteThis part of Pauline's excellent letter was censored by the Irish News for obvious reasons - they don't want the people realising that in terms of justice alone the peace process has in fact made matters worse.
The reason being; for the first time the Brits have -what they refer to as Mainstream Republicans - acting as their propaganda mouthpieces. The Brits have got what they paid for.
With the untimely death of Dolours Price the problem of her sister Marian being paroled, released, been given compassionate leave or whatever terminology was needed to let her out of jail to grieve with her family.
ReplyDeleteWith the all new Justice Minister David Ford unable to make the correct compassionate decision to release Marian another route had to be found.
What negotiations took place to secure her release for the measly 3 hours I know not, but what followed is a little hard to believe, one of the contributors on the TPQ explains the sequence of events of how she was released and brought to the family home, but no reason as to how she was allowed out I cannot find any were. When I first saw the name Pat Ramsey my thoughts were that name sounds familiar, and then to my amazement I discovered he is a member of the SDLP party. A member of SDLP once more comes to aid of a dedicated republican, the dreaded Stoop Down Low Party, the party who when they called on republicans to end their war , were beaten up and had petrol bombs hurled at their property, these democratically elected people were looked upon as scum for daring to speak out about the Provo’s and their war.
Will history repeat itself , when Fr Denis Faul showed compassion and stepped in to save republicans from themselves by bringing the hunger strike to an end, and young men’s lives were saved, he has been vilified by
Sinn Fein/IRA ever since.
Will the same compassion shown to Marian by Pat Ramsey, also be treated with the same distain as Fr Faul by the latest grouping of republicans which Marian has aligned herself with ???
Boyne Rover,
ReplyDeletethis is an interesting question. Certainly Faul was a made a scapegoat for the hunger strike. At the time it was not realised that some members of the committee boxed the hunger strikers into the killing zone and Faul was an easy target. Until Richard O'Rawe came forward the role of the committee had attention deflected from it by blaming Denis. Republicans have proved not too generous on occasions in the past. But I do feel in the case of Marian that her conviction which, agree with her or not, she had the fortitude to follow through on, would not allow the knife to be plunged into the back of Pat Ramsey. I think Pat Ramsey who has faced an enormous amount of intimidation in the past, yet who like Marian held firm to his own beliefs, has done a remarkable job in his handling of the prison situation. You sense that if you contact him he is going to judge the issue on its merits and is not going to say 'you criticised us or you don't believe John Hume was the great helmsman. Therefore, take yourself off.'
I find Pat Ramsey to be an honorable man a rare commodity in a politician,he has suffered the slings and arrows literally and remained steadfast in his beliefs yet he has not been found wanting in standing up for Marian and the other prisoners,we made a really bad mistake with Dennis Faul,I am at total odds with Pats party on almost every issue but on the internment issue Pat Ramsey has been lone voice in the political wilderness, he I think like the late Dennis Faul deserves our respect.
ReplyDeleteI honestly believe that the army council of the Provo’s were delighted when Fr Denis stepped in and stopped the madness; as no one within the republican family had a clue as to how the hunger strike would come to a conclusion. Were they to let hundreds die, who would look to be the bigger monsters them or the British.
ReplyDeleteThere is a question which I would love to ask army council of the time,
What was their strategy …?
(1) Keep the hunger strike going until the five demands were met
(2) Or keep the hunger strike going until Sinn Fein elected and got Stormont up and running again
Fr Faul told the media during the 1981 Hunger-strike that whilst Catholics might support the IRA not enough of them would give their
ReplyDeletevotes to Bobby Sands to get him elected to be an MP-when Bobby won his seat and Faul was made to look like an idiot he left Ireland for France in the hope that no one would recognize him- [the flight of the wild goose ] he only came back to Ireland when the NIO and media found him in france and persuaded him back to do more damage to the Hunger-strikers cause-
Why are we applauding politicians for doing what they are paid to do?
ReplyDeletePat Ramsey is probably a very decent person but surely he is acting within his political remit.
Nationalist politicians are still doing a dance around the issue and it has not been the one of the seven veils because despite the rhetoric and chaperone to date they have delivered nothing. Which begs the question which is, setting aside the side show have they really got the potential?
Boyne Rover a cara you answered your question no 2!that was the start of the sell out.
ReplyDeleteY'know, from 1981, when the stoops were bent on putting up a candidate against Bobby Sands in the seat left vacant by the death of Frank Maguire in the British house of commons I have despised the SDLP, but in recent years Pat Ramsey, a man who only appeared in the main BBC news because of Sinn Fein attacks on him before has shown these lot how to be a Republican, especially in respect of the unlawful detention of Marian and others.
ReplyDeleteHis wee Assistant Emmet has too worked hios rear end off to secure this matter is highlighted but so too has Conal McDevitt and of course Eamon O Cuiv whose input has been fantastic.
Unfortunatly we need further highlight this internment beyond Irish shores or the brits will continue laughing at us.
Menace
ReplyDeleteHow has Pat Ramsey shown himself to be a Republican.
Marian's case is now essentially a human rights issue and that is the ticket many have waded in under.
Most of these people begin their address speech whatever by declaring. I do not agree with Marian Prices politics but ....................
Are they working in a Republican context absolutely not!
Why has Jennfier mc Cann name not been added to the accolades a thoroughly decent person who has also spoken out on the humanitarian aspect of such issues.
Marian Price was released on compassionate grounds to attend her sisters coffin prior to the funeral .
Politicians did not get Marian released a judge declared that refusal to release her for a short time was unlawful.
What I am curious about though is the chaperone mechanism- who says that a prisoner has to be policed by politicians their party, a judge or MI5?
Exactly Fionnuala why was she released into the hands of politicians who she would also see as not being of a republican background same as herself, because of her strongly held beliefs I would have assumed she would have refused to accept them. Why did she not demand that someone from the 32 county sovereignty movement or perhaps Republican Sinn Fein to chaperone her to and from jail
ReplyDeleteNuala,
ReplyDeleteperhaps the point being made by Menace is that Pat Ramsey is doing what republicans have long done - campaigned on behalf of prisoners. And the reason that people praise him is that while he is doing his job he is doing it at a time when so many others are not doing theirs. He is also doing it at a time when other politicians see their job as freeing the PSNI of whatever human rights constraints curb their behaviour. Whether he is a republican or not is secondary to the fact that he is placing himself between prisoners and abuse.
Nationalists have delivered very little on the issue because they don't have the power to deliver. And some of them don't want to deliver if it means risking everything they "have gained". This is one of the core republican critiques of the Good Friday Treaty.
I don't think either he or Jennifer should be put in a position where they need to act as chaperones in order to have prisoners released for compassionate parole. They should be released as their own guarantor. It is what happened when we were in although in your case you were denied any opportunity. But if their input is required then it is good that both are willing to make it. I think your question about who determines chaperoning needs to be pushed further.
Not sure what point your trying to make MichaelHenry, according to the records 6 of the 10 dead hunger strikers died needlessly , but according to you Fr Faul came out from some hiding place to do more damage to the hunger strikers cause, he done what the Provo’s couldn’t do and that was to save the lives of young men. He didn’t damage the hunger strike cause he just saved lives, unlike the people whose lives he was saving he had no political or monetary gain
ReplyDeleteBoyne Rover,
ReplyDeletewhen people are faced with loss on such a personal level and it is the very last chance ever on this earth to spend time in the presence of a loved one who has just passed, they make decisions that are very human. If she had made a decision to come see Dolours handcuffed to a PSNI member I would pass no judgement on it, knowing that it is something she hated doing but that it is the terrible price to be paid.
People should be freed for funerals with no strings attached. A republican has always acted as their own guarantor and it was long accepted practice.
Mackers
ReplyDeleteI simply did not see Pat Ramsey acting with a Republican context and that is what I was saying.
Fair play to anyone who speaks out for prisoners and injustice but it always amazes me when they set the tone of their speech by highlighting they differ greatly from their subject.
Jennifer and Pat have an allegiance to this State and all the apparatuses that are actively used against Republicans.
I would seriously like to know at whose behest this chaperone mechanism kicks in.
BoyneRover.
I think Marian found herself in the most unenviable of situations.
In her sick and totally devastated state she clearly had to abide with the hand she was dealt, there were not any other offers. Martin Corey was policed in similar fashion and it most be demoralising and quite saddening.
Michaelhenry,
ReplyDeleteDenis Faul never withheld vital information from the hunger strikers that would have saved six of them. If he was in France it was for a very short while. He said mass the Sunday before Bobby died and told us who were at the mass that Bobby was now in a coma.
As for saying people would not vote Bobby in sufficient numbers it was the view and fear of many in SF, the IRA and on the blanket. It was a high risk strategy and therein lay the risk.
As for the NIO bringing him back to damage the hunger strike - can you show one iota of evidence? Contrast the NIO approach to him with Jonathan Powell's approach to the SF leadership and then ask yourself who was really an instrument of the Brit agenda.
Nuala,
ReplyDeleteyou are right that he was not operating in a republican context. But he does not need to be. It should be brought home to many politicians that they have room for manouvre on a wide range of issues and that they don't become republicans by doing so.
Given the abuse that they are likely to get for helping someone in Marian's position some of them move to wrongfoot their detractors and denying them the opportunity to undermine.
People support the state because they feel the state is democratically mandated in a way that much of republicanism is not. We as republicans might dissent from the state in a general political sense but support the vital societal functions that a state is supposed to perform in modern societies and in fact demand the expansion of the state sector vis a vis the private.
Totally agree pow,s should be released under their own guarantor as was the practice, this disgusting new set up is in my opinion just another form of humiliation, however given the circumstances I cant blame anyone who steps outside their strongly held beliefs to grab a chance to say goodbye forever to a loved one,as for Pat Ramsey acting within his remit I dont understand how,Marian is not a constituent nor is Pat an ex prisoner or on the justice committee,Pat Ramsey has acted in an honorable fashion in all of this Jennifer Mc Cann may indeed be a decent human being but her party,s participation in the whole prison issue leaves more than a lot of unanswered questions,Dennis Faul was demonised when alive and it turned out the man was indeed genuine Pat Ramseys efforts are I,m sure appreciated by all the prisoners because he is certainly acting on their behalf as someone concerned more about human rights above party politics .
ReplyDeleteMackers
ReplyDeleteI totally agree. Republicans are totally divided over the intervention of politicians here. The crux of the division is whether we use them in their capacity to do what they have essentially signed up to do or shun them because they actively function as part of the states apparatus.
Your right, they don't have to be Republican but we are entitled to expect that they have strong objections to the abuse of their constituents .
Marian remains sick and illegally detained. Martin Corey detained on the word of MI5. Stephen Murney and other political prisoners being stripped and abused.
Are we entitled to expect politicians to speak out about such issues I definitely think so . Realistically can the make a real difference that really remains to be seen.
I've had a wee look through some of the comments here, and feel humbled by some of them, and puzzled by others. Throughout the period we have been engaged in prisoner issues, Pat has done his duty as a Nationalist and as someone who believes in steadfastly upholding universal human rights.
ReplyDeleteThat having been said, alot of the work, whether it be for Marian, Gerry or the men in Roe, has been done quietly - primarily because we didn't get involved in this because it was popular - it isn't - or because of electoral gain - there isn't any - we got involved because it was the right thing to do, both ethically and in a Nationalist context. I need not labour this point as all those people referred to have their own mouths and can give their view as they see fit. I also notice Jennifer McCann's name has been mentioned as I despair at what I see as 'whataboutery' when it comes to addressing these issues. Yes, take it from me, some SF politicians are interested and have sought to address certain aspects of the situation prisoners find themselves in, but it is not, in my opinion, consistent. We know what a SF campaign looks like, and a few press statements do not constitute that.
Again, nothing for me to gain by attacking SF on this issue, not interested in that, but we do need a pan-Nationalist front on this issue and others. In terms of it being a politicians remit or not to address these issues, if that was the case and Pat acted 'within his remit', then only prisoners resident in Foyle would be on the radar. 90% of those in Roe, Marian, Gerry and Martin Corey aren't constituents. Make of that what you will. I would ask people to understand one thing; not everything that is done to address this situation - by anyone - can be made public. Understandable because people may not see it in the papers every week they may determine nothing is happening. All I can say is that is not the case and all I can do to verify that is to give my word.
Emmet,
ReplyDeleteI readily accept what you say. I think that prisoners are protected by what Pat and yourself do. I also think there are some in SF who want the issue resolved. And that is welcome.
However, people are cognisant of the fact that that Sinn Fein leaders directed a long useless war that caused great suffering yet the current sistuation is all that was achieved - the same issues are still being protested against that were protested against 30 years ago.
That the war was against a pretty malign state does not justify its longevity or ferocity. And the cost was simply too much. Now for SF to come around to the position that the SDLP held to all along is not an indictment of the SDLP but of SF and it upsets some.
It also strikes many here that the SDLP is doing much more for prisoners than SF even if some in SF are putting their shoulder to the wheel. I think people feel the need to comment on the gap between what was practiced and what was preached.
Emmet
ReplyDeleteWhataboutry? The fact that Jennifer's name was left out actually presents people with a very skewed version of events.
Why should Jennifer not be mentioned if you are listing politicians who weighed in on all these issues. Or are you suggesting she was not there at all? Or less than deserving of a mention?
In relation to remit. Is a politicians remit on injustice confined to his own constituents, quite bizarre if it is.
Emmet you yourself have done quite a bit to highlight the cause of prisoners. Can you go further and tell us what is happening in relation to Marian, Martin and Roe and what are the chances of a Pan Nationalist Front getting two innocent released and the prison issue sorted.
Also you might be in a prime position to tell us on whose decision prisoners are policed by politicians .
Hey you Quilly Billys!!!!
ReplyDeleteAs an independent with a healthy disdain for all politicians (opportunists and carpet baggers). I would like to state that Pat Ramsey has worked above and beyond his political remit and has done since my initial request.
Pat was asked to get on board when he met Marian's family in my home last January. I can't comment on Jennifer McCann's commitment as i'm not fully aware, however she has been very vocal. Pat Ramsey for a long time has been on call weekends and evenings etc as I was that torture.
I would definitely say credit where it is due although you will usually find as in the case of Pat Ramsey, those who do the most rarely receive the credit they are due, and that's if they're lucky!!!!
I'm not a republican but have been very vocal on what's happening to Marian Price as I come at this from a human rights perspective. I don't feel anyone stating their position to be a bad thing in fact I feel it helps encourage broad support.
Pauline
ReplyDeleteI am not a 'Quilly Billy nor a silly Billy' or an opportunist although sadly I have came across quite a few recently.
I dare say that Pat Ramsey has done a lot but with respect he is as entitled as is any other politician worth their political salt to speak out against injustice wherever it stems.
Mackers is right the SDLP ate now being credited with doing a considerable more than Sinn Fein on these issues. Again very good but realistically why should people not expect this?
As for praise and thanks. Help and assistance in situations like this are usually the result of a degree of altruism not gratitude seeking.
A person stating their position is not an issue and indeed it may attract broader support.
If you re-read my comment and I am assuming this flurry of attention is to do with my comments.
I was saying that beginning a speech in a distancing context sets a very different type of tone to a Republican one.
Pauline-
ReplyDelete" Hey you Quilly Billys "
Dont know what to say to that lol-
A good honest first post by your good self-
Fionnuala,
ReplyDeleteAll I know persoanlly is that Jennifer has been involved moreso recently. In terms of telling you more, no unfortunately I can't, all I can say is that it is being worked on every single day.
E
Boyne Rover-
ReplyDelete" according to the records 6 of the
10 dead hunger strikers died needlessly "
What records are these-
About Faul- " he had no political or monetary gain "
How do you know- he played politics
with the catholic church and got a Monsignor job for his troubles-
Fr Faul said that accusations that the catholic church brain-washed children were true and that it was perfectly proper to do so-sad that some can support anyone who said that-
Emmet-
" All i can do to verify that is to give my word "
Thanks for more secrets-you know where you can stick your word------
Emmet
ReplyDeleteGlad to here that. I think we are entitled to call politicians to account. I think it I'd quite ridiculous ghat we should be expected to applaud people for doing their job.
Having said that, I know Pat Ramsay is quite highly thought of by people who he has tried to assist.
It is also quite helpful to know that both of you work as hard as you do. But to be honest Emmet I get the feeling that my initial issue in relation to politicians and Republicans for whatever reason has been side tracked.
Michaelhenry,
ReplyDeletethis grows more incoherent by the post. At least you are consistent with your incoherence.
Emmet can stick his word for sure - right into the ear of those of us who think his word is worth something. Not something we could ever accuse your leader of. He is totally innocent of ever having kept his word.
Nuala,
I think it is normal to applaud people for doing their job. It happens in sport, on long haul flights, music peformances. It is when they are applauded for not doing their job that we should begin to get worried.
Apologies for typos on my posts not on computer trying to answer on my phone on a very small sceen.
ReplyDeleteMichael,
ReplyDeleteI think you're somewhat naive if you think I was going to spell out exactly what is going on at present, and I can assure you your comment about where I can stick my word doesn't bother me, I know what I am doing, and I am quite content to keep it to myself, indeed if I was shouting from the rooftops what was going on, I suspect you'd be amongst the first to criticise.
Fionnuala, your point may indeed have been swept aside, by others, I am merely trying to articulate the basis for certain people's involvement.
Mackers
ReplyDeleteI am not one for praise for praise sake but I would always applaud people who make a difference.
Politicians here are paid quite a hefty salary and quite a few bonuses thrown in.
Pat Ramsay choose a political path in his life and I would assume it was not for perks but to benefit people.
Marian is a person as is Martin as are the political prisoners if you are in a position to help why not?
In my world that's what people do and they don't expect to be applauded for it.
If Pat deserves a well done - then well done Pat and Emmet.
AM
ReplyDeleteWhy are telling us all these things, I don’t believe you when you say there was H Blocks and hunger strikes, and what’s all this about on the blanket ,
Yeah and Marian Price is in jail , bullshit I say, just ask Michaelhenry he will back me on this
Fionnuala,
ReplyDeleteNot necessary, we are , as you rightly pointed out, merely doing our job.
E
Emmet
ReplyDeleteI was referring to you sidetracking the issue and I genuinely appreciate your honesty.
I can state quite clearly that the term Quilly Billy was in fact my idea of humor why as a first time poster would i begin by offending anyone? Sorry to those i have offended.
ReplyDeleteFionnuala I'm baffled at how you took this comment so personally I would suggest you go back and read it. Silly Billy??? Opportunist???
The term Carpet baggers and opportunists was written next to the word politician in brackets in reference to my opinion of them. Unless you have become a politician it's obvious it wasn't directed at you you!!!! As for your meeting quite a few opportunists recently my suggestion would be you follow my lead and distance yourself from them. Again i would suggest you go back and re read the post before you come off with baseless accusations.
Pauline
ReplyDeleteGenuinely sorry if your attempt at humour was lost on me.
Nohingt is obvious in the language of innuendo or double speak. Whether you were speaking about me or not does not concern me, I barely know you.
You may have managed to distance yourself from your term of ' opportunists' some of us not finding it so easy.
Emmet.
ReplyDeleteI should have said I was not referring to you.
Pauline
ReplyDeleteJust read you final line baseless accusations?
Ate you now going to tell us how to think. Somehow I don't think do . Point out the baseless accusations?
Pauline,
ReplyDeleteI laughed when I read the term Quill Billies.
Boyne Rover,
and Gerry was never in anything but the Legion of Mary.
Nuala,
I don't see Pat asking for any praise. It has been unsolicited.
Again, I'm doing more reading than writing, however a few things spring to mind. First and foremost is what Dixie pointed out in the Irish News censored section of Pauline Mellon's letter in that It would seem that the Northern Ireland Assembly is conspiring with the British government to intern Marian.."
ReplyDeleteThis assertion is quite true, it's not that it seems to be, it is, and if I am to go a step further and paraphrase Ms Mellon when she spoke in Belfast for Marian, 'if something walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck'.
Despite their efforts there is no escaping the simple fact that the Stormont regime has interned and tortured Marian Price. I'm not going to in any way try to absolve those in Stormont from their guilt and say it is at the behest of the Brits. It's wrong I know it, you know it and they know it. And if the so called nationalist / republicans who validate the occupation of the six counties by their continuing presence in Stormont wanted Marian Price or Martin Corey out tomorrow they could have it. The recent appeasement of Sinn Fein with the Padraig Wilson release is evidence of this, we are told that justice is blind, it's not blind, it just turns a blind eye when it needs to.
I found it interesting that Fionnuala start of one comment stating 'Why are we applauding politicians for doing what they are paid to do? Pat Ramsey is probably a very decent person but surely he is acting within his political remit. ' and then in another comment in complete contradiction asks 'Why has Jennfier mc Cann name not been added to the accolades a thoroughly decent person who has also spoken out on the humanitarian aspect of such issues.'
A number of points in relation to this come to mind, and I'm not purposefully singling Fionnuala out. Firstly Pat Ramsey is not Marian's MLA, Jennifer McCann is, and is MLA for West Belfast. From a cursory search on the Sinn Fein website the first statement Jennifer McCann issued directly in reference to the interment and torture of Marian Price was on 12th March 2012, yet Jennifer neglected to mention the words internment, or torture nor the alleged destruction or loss of Marian's pardon. I won't criticise anyone speaking out, but at the same time, when it is mere lip service that ignores incontrovertible truths that is a different matter.
To look at the date of Jennifer McCann's statement you can see that it was a month after a meeting held in Derry to highlight the interment and torture of Marian Price, it would seem that Jennifer and Sinn Fein were merely playing catch up.
As I pointed out in another thread I question the motive of everyone and their actions or indeed in this case inaction. Pat Ramsey stands to gain least from his involvement with a campaign to have Marian Price freed, the SDLP stands to lose moderate unionist support up in Derry, yet he still took a platform when republicans did not, and this perturbs me.
Mackers
ReplyDeleteI'm sure and certain Pat Ramsay is not seeking praise , I think my initial post has been turned into something else by design.
Politicians should do what they are elected to do and if that is fighting injustice well and good.
Sinn Fein and case in point Jennifer McCann has little to lose from this on her home turf. As the elected representative for Marian she should have been spearheading the campaign for Marian's release, whether she or Marian agree politically is irrelevant and a moot point. It seems that the campaign for Marian Price is actually being spearheaded by this wee girl from Derry, who on this forum has stated she isn't even a republican.
ReplyDeleteAfter a public meeting and the march up in Derry which my son informs me were both organised by Ms Mellon there was opportunity for republicans to capitalise on a raised public awareness of not only Marian's case but the the prison protest and selectivity of the Stormont regimes administration of justice.
We as republicans have lost impetus and we need to build ground using every opportunity to highlight the fallacy of the so called institutions, the fragmentation of contemporary Irish republicanism is another kettle of fish and in need of a wider constructive debate and reaffirmation of the unified goal.
I would like to ask something and hopefully someone here can tell me what is Marian's family doing to secure her release? Her husband has spoken a few times, but in terms of information that would galvanise wider public opinion the family seem to do very little. Even looking on the web site there is very few statements or little input from Marian's family or her legal team. Maybe I'm wrong and have missed out, if it's there can someone point me to the right place to find it, or if they are doing very little then can they be asked why?
I'm thinking of the note that came out from young Murney from Newry last week or so that detailed the ongoing criminal behaviour endemic to Stormont's prison system. This statement was a positive throwback to the awareness raising that took place at the time of the hunger strikes and blanket protests. I know I've gone off one one but there are so many things in my head, that I might just end up boring you all to death with them.
Seamus.
Seamus,
ReplyDeletewe got about three or four of the same comment through from you. If it does not appear it just means we are not at the compuiter to upload it for you.
Nuala,
I doubt there has been any design. It is just an exchange of views by all promoted by Boyne Rover's initial comment.
Fionnuala as you stated i don't know you and can't understand how my 1st comment became about you? When did i tell you how to think? I merely stated an opinion on Pat Ramsey an opinion i am rightly entitled to given his ongoing commitment.
ReplyDeleteThe term baseless accusation was in reference to your accusation that i called you a silly billy and opportunist.Again i can't understand how a comment that wasn't directed at you in any way became about you. I don't use double speak and if you knew me you would know that unlike many i stand over what i say. Have a good evening, Pauline.
SeamusMc
ReplyDeleteI think politicans here could be doing a lot more than they are and yes they are paid.
One post was listing all those politicans who had helped Marian and Jennifer was omitted why?
Yes this is Marian and Jennifer's constituency but does that seriously mean everyone else drops their guard.
This is a political blog and I got the impression half through my posts that what I was saying was being used as point scoring rather than a Republican analysis .
I think this thread has wandered away from the really excellent post by Pauline re Marian,I have been long of the opinion that if Pete the punt was prepared to walk over the crown on screws badges then both the parties who claim to represent the nationalist population should have in tandem delivered a hard threat that internment would in no way be tolerated in any shape or form.but however we are were we are and we have republicans now interned while so called republicans are in government appointing so called justice ministers while all the time mi5 through the sos really run the show, whether Pat Ramsey or Jenifer Mc Cann are entitled to our thanks for acting on behalf of prisoners is an opinion we are all entitled to, mine still is that Pats has earned my respect that opinion wont change in a whim .
ReplyDeletePauline,
ReplyDeleteI am having a good evening George Clooney on the awards.
I never said you called me a silly Billy, I merely pointed out I am not. What i said was neither baseless or an accusation you claim you meant one thing i on the other hand would equate it with something else.
Anyway considering we don't know either other or care less what the other thinks it is neither here or there.
But if you knew me you would also know that a hurried alliance or a put ogether chorus will not change how I think.
A good evening to you also.
Mackers
ReplyDeleteIf you were looking out not in you might form a very different analysis.
Nuala,
ReplyDeleteno clue what that means
Emment-
ReplyDeleteTake my comments with a pinch of salt- i do hope that your good self
and Pauline write here more often-you are good people-
AM-
About your comments about my comments i have mostly got the Evidence-mostly-give me a day to check again-i am going to have to write down things that i had read-
Anthony if your granny had balls she would have been a wheel barrow
ReplyDeleteSorry i'm lost a hurried together alliance???? chorus???? now i'm really lost. An alliance of who? What chorus?
ReplyDeletePauline.
ReplyDeleteDon't think you are. Anyway what happened to Goodnight?
Now i'm really lost Grannies with balls becoming wheel barrows hurried together alliances and a chorus...it's time for my bed.
ReplyDeletewell, it's goodnight for me as I am exhausted. And I have just discovered a note from my son asking for a cuddle! He has his priorities right
ReplyDeleteMackers
ReplyDeleteGoodnight to you .
He sure has a cara,
ReplyDeleteMackers
ReplyDeleteIt has been a long night, a very good night to you .
Sounding like the Waltons.
ReplyDeleteMmm bit late on this but...
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nuala, name all those stormont politicians of any persuasion speaking not about Marians internment, but please see it from a republican analysis, politicians altruistic - Accepted Pat Ramsey has been active with support from Emmet in this, SF are certainly playing cynical politics as usual. I have seen time and time again Pat call the human rights issues (of course there are. Recently ray mccartney/Jennifer mccann calling out David Ford to intervene. well :-
Pat, Emmet, and since Ray sits on the justice committee they all know David Ford cannot intervene - as confirmed 4th September which was forwarded to SDLP due to the 'licence being revoked on national security' From devolution in 1998 Justice powers on national security remained with Westminster, the life sentences 2001, policing and justice 2007 & amendments did not change that, national security remains with the British Secretary of State. Why have Pat as an MLA raised this as a 'nationalist' if not republican issue? Why has SF not pointed out this - Because they signed in 1998 this into power, gave agreement to it by taking and remaining to take seats in stormont, They sealed the deal that keeps Marian interned, involvement in Marians campaign has a pay off for them so don't deny it.
Marian would not be interned but reserved powers gave Westminster ultimate power
Politicians may have a remit but its a stormont remit,
I do think tho (Michael Henry excepted) there is consensus which Pauline has done a fine job of keeping many disparate groups together-I'm not rreligious but Monsignor Raymond Murray also commended for his effort,
But please call a spade a spade, The British interned Marian, legislation signed and un-amended keeps her interned-why the silence on that point - especially from people who call themselves nationalist or republican because their perspective is anything but republican.
Dingo,
ReplyDeletereading your comment makes me think the Stormont charade could be properly described as a no power to share agreement.
AM - sorry about the multiple comments between this computer nearly as old as me and my internet being as good as dung.
ReplyDeleteFionnuala, since I didnt write the post that omitted Jennifer McCann I can't answer, and as 'everyone else dropping their guard' they never had it up in the first place, The simple fact that Marian's Sinn Fein MLA was playing catch up to a Derry based SDLP shows that Sinn Fein and MCCann had/have little or no genuine motive, other than being embarrased into action. Not exactly instilling pubic confidence in their ability, well that's unless you are Padraig Wilson.. You can read into that what you may.
Yes this is a political blog and I'm it sure has opinions from all quarters, and halfway through your posts I was confused at your contradictory comments, as for point scoring, who was point scoring, my posts as yours are open to challenge and scrutiny, would that not be the essence of debate?
Seamus
SeamusMc
ReplyDeleteCan I apologise also for the multiple typos as I said last evening, I am posting from my phone which is anything but ideal.
Sinn Fein's Mla Jennifer Mc Cann was playing catch up to Derry based SDLP. You could be right on this but it would really help if you could eloraborate to the extent of offering clear evidence of this.
I have no time for Sinn Fein or Jennifer's politics but that does not take away from the fact that Jennifer was one of the best Republicans I ever knew and a very decent individual . Sinn Fein will try to make political gain from this without any doubt but that does not make jennifer an opportunist . I think if any Republican woman could stand on her merit pre her post Sinn Fein days it's Ms Mc Cann. That is not to say that Jennifer is less than genuine now as an individual, in fact I would say she would be a lot more sincere and trustworthy in this situation that many of those who are scathing of her.
Confused by my contradictory comments. I thought we went through this last night? Clearly not. What are they and maybe I provide even more clarity.
Also you missed the point in relation to the scoring!
Nula, sorry for the delay, I was away at work 'til today.
ReplyDeleteThe reason for mentioning Pat as a Republican is, as Mackers says, his committment to this issue; Marian McGlinchey is not from Derry but he, rather than many of her former colleagues, has driven this issue, to me Republicanism is about treating all equally, he has promoted the human rights breaches of Marian, Martin, Gerry and Brendan et. al for two years now.
Eamon too could sit in west Galway and concentrate on the needs of only the voters there, instead he has sought to raise the unfairness of the internment of Irish citizens, again, with the Brit government, with some success.
Emmet, most public servants I know start work at 4.30 and finish at 5pm, you have been on the phone about this matter to me on Saturday mornings as I try to go to work and later at night when I'm trying to sleep, this is the committment to Irish rights I have not come across from those the bearded bollocks speaks for, with one exception!
Fionnuala
ReplyDelete"Jennifer was one of the best Republicans I ever knew and a very decent individual" . If she is what you say, then why isn't she shouting from the roof tops now after all was that not what she expected all the political parties in the North to do when she was fighting her war. “Sinn Fein will try to make political gain from this without any doubt but that does not make Jennifer an opportunist.” this doesn’t make sense to me , other than it’s a typical republican response, are you trying to tell us she can be a member of Sinn Fein but is free to help people who The Sinn Fein DFM called traitors, they being Dissidents Republicans. Jennifer and her comrades in Sinn Fein are doing exactly what previous parties that grew from armed conflict done to the next generation of republicans and that is “Fuck you jack I am alright”
BoyneRover
ReplyDeleteNo actually we did not as young people we were not terribly interested in political parties.
I know all about Sinn Fein as do other Republicans but it does detract from her being a genuine person and like or not her past cannot be wiped away.
The negative "You, We , me may not agree with or share the politics of Marian Price" Party political speakers and political commentators may want to remind those listening that "you may not agree with or share our/ my politics" because they are totally Redundant and powerless to affect any change for Marian politically!! (so get off the constitutional party soapbox and hypocrisy) and tell it how it is.
ReplyDeleteThe Assembly that has no power so none to share is because of the terms of devolution - reserved and excepted matters - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_and_excepted_matters#section_2
National security is solely the preserve of Westminster.
David "useless as a Dodo" Ford knows he has no power in this as confirmed in a reply to my letter where It was asked if he was subservient to the British Secretary of State in regards to Marians case and for him to clarify questions on legislation. It is different to the case of BL due to "national security" being cited. Ford re BL stalled,ignored medical reports and said he needed legal advice! (he is the minister for justice).
It is clear and SF and SDLP Know in Marians case they politically are powerless, a personal interest, campaigning is what some are doing in putting a great deal of time and effort into campaigning but lose the charade that its your politics, constitutional party, constitutional representatives are making the difference here because there is no constitutional factor within stormont that affects the case to free Marian Price.
Am I to take from your response that Jennifer is really ok and would love to fight tooth and nail to get Marian and Martin freed from the British new form of internment, only that she is bound by the rules of the Stormont ??
ReplyDeleteShe is as genuine as Martin McGuinness and we all know his views on anyone against the union with Britain
BoyneRover,
ReplyDeleteI asked Seamus whoever earlier to come and back up his claim that the SDLP have done more than Sinn Fein Concrete evidence was what i was looking which of course he will not produce!
Is Jennifer any different than the SDLP or any other British minister here probably not. But for reasons best known to myself and in relation to recent developments that involved JenniferMcCann I would cite her as a much more decent person than those who are scathing of her.Within sinn fein she is well in step with McGuinness but you cannot group people and label them as being carbon copies.
I would say in all probability you would not even know her.
Fionnuala
ReplyDeleteYou are struggling to separate the Provo’s war from reality this is exactly what happens, much to your despair she gone over to the other side, hard as it might be for you, but that’s life she has accepted the British pound some people crave power and she among others cant resist it
BoyneRover
ReplyDeleteI don't struggle to accept anything. I accepted these things quite a while back. Provos who were the Provos ?
People now speak as if they were something we were all detached from. I can't keep commenting on Jennifer it is sounding repitive.