Thursday, January 31, 2013

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End Impunity! Bernadette McAliskey Bloody Sunday Speech Transcript and Video

Bernadette Devlin McAliskey's Bloody Sunday March for Justice 2013 address as delivered at Free Doire Corner on Sunday the 27th of January.


Bernadette McAliskey addressing the rally at this year's Bloody Sunday March For Justice which had the theme 'End Impunity'. Despite a wet, windy, wintery day around 3500 people braved the elements to march in solidarity with the victims of Bloody Sunday and other injustices. This years events gave specific focus to the miner's strike and the Hillsborough disaster as well as the scandal that has been playing out with impunity in Rossport where the local community are under occupation by Shell and the Garda has the common wealth of the Irish people is not just given away to Shell for the taking but at the cost of the health and safety of the local people.

TRANSCRIPT:

Thanks very much. I wasn't really quite sure where to start here today. It's good to see so many people here. I thought actually that Kate was going to read out some of the thanks to people before I started but she's going to do that afterwards.

So I'd just like to take a minute to thank Kate Nash, to thank The Nash Sisters, to thank the families who have asserted their right to keep this issue to the fore until the truth is followed by accountability for the action.

It has been a lonely enough path at times for families. There are times when people who are in the thick of what is actually happening – the people who have actually have suffered the brunt of the pain and the loss - who have to travel very lonely paths sometimes - although we try our best to stand with everybody.

The ebb comes and goes. And it takes very brave people to keep standing their ground when there are plenty of people with them and when there are no people simply because they know that justice remains to be done needs nd not simply be seen to be have done.

So here on the forty-first anniversary of Bloody Sunday I'm actually surprised myself that on this cold day that somewhere in the back of my head is a slightly-too-close for me at the minute a very uncomfortable memory of standing here forty-one years ago.

Sometimes you forget as well why we came on that day. It's very important to remember first of all that we continue to fight - to challenge the cover-up, to challenge the pattern, to challenge the belief that the state can do whatever the states likes.

And even though some people from time to time get tired or begin to collaborate with the state in believing that it's all best swept away somewhere and new starts made on corrupt beginnings.

We still have to keep in front of people's minds that it didn't just happen to us. Bloody Sunday is not exclusive to the people of Doire - not exclusive to the people of Northern Ireland. Had many of you had the opportunity, which you didn't, to be at some of the events yesterday, and hear Jenny Hicks speak of the loss of her two daughters at the cover-up in Hillsborough, to hear Dave Douglas speak about the cover-up of the attack on the miners, to hear Susan McKay speak on the cover-up of sexual abuse of innocent children who were supposed to be safe in the care of institutions and were violated there.

And I think what stood in common to all of us yesterday as we were speaking was that the deed was bad enough. The shooting of people in the street in Doire was bad enough. The failure to protect people in a football stadium was bad enough. But the worst thing that happened to people was that having done it was the lie!

To immediately, in the aftermath of doing it, to lie about it. And to consistently maintain that lie to protect the state, to protect the interest, to protect the guilty. And in order to keep that lie alive, to demonise, to vilify the innocent.

And let us remember that even today when the vast majority of the innocent have been declared innocent - which we always knew - that innocence is still denied to young Gerald Donaghey. Innocence is still denied to that young person on whose corpse soldiers planted nail bombs in his pockets so that they could say they saw them there or whatever it was they did. There has still not been a declaration of innocence for young Gerald Donaghy.

Let us also remember, and we talked about that yesterday as well, that that pattern, that pattern of the state action doing what they want, lying about the fact they did it, being able to draw in the great and the good - the media, the police, the Church, the social speakers, the powerful - to maintain the lie.

That demonising of the victims, that long, long process of barricading the truth away from the people. People talk about how long The Saville Inquiry took - how expensive The Saville Inquiry was. It took a long time and it cost alot of money because for every single inch of that journey, for every single day of that journey, the British government, who set the Inquiry up, prevented the truth from being brought before it.

That's why it cost alot of money. That's why it took alot of time.

And as one of the people and I still say - I never asked for that Inquiry...I never wanted it...that's my personal stand...I never wanted to go to it because the man who was sitting there, decent human being though he was, was an employee of the government I saw murder people in front of my eyes!

How was he going to find his employer guilty? So he laid the blame at a half a dozen soldiers. And they still have not been held to account.

But the true culprits will never be held to account unless we keep on this path until they are.

But let us not forget what took us onto the streets that day.

We did not stand here forty-one years ago for the purpose of being shot. That's not why we came here. We didn't stand here all that time ago to create a situation that we would have to remember year after year.

We came on the streets that day to end the policy of internment without trial. That's what took us here.

And here today forty-one years later we have a new administration. We have a new dispensation. We have a new power structure. We have new civic collaborators in the administration of government.

But we still have internment without trial!

We still have people in prison on the whim and the dictate of the Northern Ireland Secretary of State - the Overlord of this place.

And whatever minions of small people who think they have power here... the fact that they cannot have Martin Corey released means they have no power! Power still lies in the fist of the Northern Ireland Secretary of State. But they have paper power.

Marian Price remains in prison on the whim of the Secretary of State.

Dolours Price cannot be harmed by this state anymore because they have finally destroyed that good woman and she is now gone.

But the Minister of so-called Justice, David so-called “Liberal” Ford, under Article 7 of the 2000 Act, at the stroke of a pen could release her sister whom they are also trying to break in body and soul and spirit and mind. And for what?

It took all day yesterday in the High Court for a very brave lawyer to keep battling against David Ford and we're not supposed to say this because David Ford asked the judge to insure there was no reporting.

Well...I don't work for the media...so I'm not reporting... I'm just telling you!

But in the High Court, on a judicial review, the judge said that David Ford's behaviour and his judgment on not allowing Marian Price out - and not even considering it – for a few hours to sit by the coffin of her sister was unlawful, unreasonable and irrational. That's what the judge said about the Minister of Justice of this small, misbegotten, corrupt, little, pretending state.

He said the Minister of Lilliput is irrational. He said the Minister of Lilliput doesn't understand the law.

And he said that that young woman should be released for at least four hours to sit by the coffin of a sister with whom she had shared a cell for many years. With whom she had suffered the human torture, degrading and inhuman treatment of having a tube put down her throat, into her stomach, held down until a jug of liquid was poured into that funnel, into that tube and into that stomach every single day for over [two] hundred days.

When we talk about people on hunger strike many young people here forget that when Marian Price and Dolours Price were on hunger strike it wasn't that they were fasting - they were force fed in that manner for every day for [two] hundred days - and it destroyed those young women. It destroyed their physical health and still the state not satisfied.

Bullies one of them all of her life and imprisons the other one.

We came here forty-one years ago to demand (the end of) internment without trial. We came here forty-one years ago to make it perfectly clear that if Her Majesty's government – Her Majesty owns the government – if her Majesty's government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland could not insure that this part of her jurisdiction was governed openly, transparently, democratically and within the dictates of fundamental human rights and freedoms - which should be extended to people in prison - which should be extended to people who should not have their liberty removed from them except by due, open process of law - then this place should not be governed by Her Majesty's United Kingdom government.

And I would like to say from this platform that I for one have not changed that position. And I don't care who is currently standing between us, between us and Her Majesty's government and attempting to administer democracy on their behalf.

Make the damn state work!

Make it work openly, democratically in support of the civil rights we have demanded since 1968!

We stand today looking at a new dispensation, people still in prison, the people in these houses – people who live here - no housing executive after a few years! No welfare state! No health! No benefit! No civil rights! No nothing!

And you look on that wall and ask for what died the sons, the daughters, the children of these streets.

We have got to get our act together. We have got to do a bit more than just march. We have got to organise. We've got to educate ourselves. We have got to get moving or there will soon be nothing here for anybody.

Let's look at the bravery of the people who stood here.

Let's look at the endurance of the families who have held this fight. Let's look at the endurance of Marian Price and Martin Corey and the others and let's say to ourselves: we have got to get a political programme together here and get the struggle for civil rights, political rights, social rights and economic rights together or we are in, comrades and colleagues, for one hell of a hiding. Thank you very much.


79 comments :

itsjustmacker said...

Well done Bernadette, that was one hell of a speech, and, nothing was written, everything straight of the cuff, but, she is right, we do have to organise, she is right, The British Government had little choice but to apologise over Bloody sunday, but, they have no right, within the european law of not bringing those to justice who committed those murders, who planted those nail bombs. David ford should bow his head in shame and ask forgiveness, the judge was 100% correct in that statement, he should release Marian and the others and then resign.

marty said...

"Make the damm state" work Bernie a cara your living on cloud cuckoo land,the state has now incorporated quisling $inn £ein along side sexual abusers quisling catholic church,the enemy at the gate has increased in number,and ruling by fooling is indeed the order of the day. the people of this country from Rossport to Derry and our fellow workers in England from miners to the Hillsbourgh coverup know how corrupt these governments are,we have with the exception of a very few become nothing more a society of all right Jacks until the knock comes.the fucking state will never work for the truth or benefit of the people.

Aine said...

Marty I agree that the idea of "making the state work" is not an easy task - I however believe that Bernadette was stating that it is possible for this "lilliput" state to work if people actually organise and make it work for themselves.....In the light of our "modern" world however that aim may well been seen as mere idealism but I for one would rather aim for that than to continue to take the "hiding".
"ruling by fooling" is definitely the game of the day and not just on the o6 but across the island of Ireland and the globe. The State can always act with impunity ..... but to a certain extent only if they are permitted to do so by the populace.

marty said...

Aine as we see in Rossport, Ardoyne, and in Cork where the garda deliberately lied in the prosecution of people taking part in peaceful white line pickets ,the judge knew they were lying but as always believed the agencies of the state rather than the people,this is political manipulation of the state agencies both the forces of law and order and the judiciary in order to protect the few, any thoughts of participating in a democratic movement aimed at acquiring justice for the masses is akin to standing near a black hole and not expect to get sucked in ,ask the sticks ,the q$£ and those who went before, we need change ,we need it like yesterday a cara but it sure as hell is not going to come by asking for it.

Belfast Bookworm said...

David Ford is one smarmy hateful bastard, but the shinners knew this when they boxed him off with the post... Someone to do their dirty work.

Danny Kennedy would have shown more humanity towards Marian had he have got it, in my opinion.

Aine said...

Marty I do agree with you, I am not by any means a "statist".
You are right however no one will get a damn thing by asking nicely or loudly or by writing it on a wall or a placard.
I do however wish to maintain my belief than change can happen..... otherwise do we just resign ourselves to obeying our masters.

AM said...

Belfast Bookworm,

hs is one of those liberal faces that conceals a very repressive heart and should be called out it at every turn. There is more compassion in the judiciary. On Danny Kennedy, I think you are right. He would never approve of Marian but I doubt very much if he would adopt the policy of a punitive little sadist trying to win the kudos of the law and order lobby. And the rotten little tosser tried to have it all censored. Where is the transparency of democracy at play here? I think it was Robin Glendinning who got this lot so well in one of his biting plays.

Belfast Bookworm said...

Anthony; I'd take a unionist over Ford any day.. At least you are left in no doubt exactly where they're coming from or what they think. You're right about him, liberalism is a facade that keeps slipping with him.

Come to think of it, I'd probably take a unionist over a shinner too.

In terms of their treatment of Marian, I'm becoming more convinced they're trying to push buttons. Of course they've learned from the past, they have to have had. So why are they still pushing people to their very limits.

The flag protests, the psni response to it, Dolours' death and The Establishments inhumanity towards Marian after it seems to have brought on a real turning of the tide. Even middle of the road nationalists are questioning what's going on, people who normally wouldn't give two hoots whether Marian Price and anyone like her were locked up forever.

The silence of nationalist elected reps over this was deafening - and people have taken note.

There's a bigger agenda, that's for sure. Whose agenda or exactly what it is remains to be seen.

marty said...

Aine change for the better for the "plebs"never came about by trying to cooperate with the system,every benefit that the working class have received has been wrenched from their masters,the labour party was once a "labour" party now that its been incorporated into the system for so long we now see no difference between them and the torys, its way past time for change but we need a new approach and thinking, the established parties are just that the establishment,and no friend or help to the cause of the working class..

marty said...

Anthony,Belfast Bookworm I think Ford is like a lump of plasticine,he will and can be moulded anyway his masters choose, in this case I think that is Villiers who in turn is directed by MI5,the real rulers of norn iorn everyone else are just bit players..

Fionnuala Perry said...

It was worth travelling in the cold and rain to Derry just to stand for a while and listen to this woman of substance. We have seen more politicians in this shoddy little state than we would care to remember but none could ever hold a candle to her.
Refreshing, intelligent and genuine plus the fact she forgets more about politics than many of her critics could ever remember.

Feel te love said...

Belfast Bookworm

The agenda of the brits is the same as it always has been. They have, as everyone knows always kept the people of Ireland divided in one way or another.
They put a hook into SF and are reeling them in. It would appear the brits are having much fun as the hook gets deeper any time SF resist. Look at how many republicans are divided and without direction. Many former IRA hate SF, likewise SF hate them, for constantly reminding them of thier betrayal. By thier own ineptitude, they have cast themselves as traitors.
SF are just like the dupes of campaigns past. Although it is not to late for many of them, to return to thier roots, I believe SF will never win the grassroots back and will in time fade like the SDLP,just like thier friends the brits always planned. They have been used and abused. Fools. Divide and conquer. Pretty basic stuff.

itsjustmacker said...

feel to love:

You got it in one, but they knew what they were doing all along, hoodwinking everyone, "Not a Bullet, Not an ounce"!, "With the ballot box in one hand and the armalite in the other"! , "Do not leave comrades, follow us, we will lead you to the republic".
Yeah, they lead everyone up the garden path, I still see the grin on two faces, McGuinness shaking the British monarch's hand, Robinson looking at McGuinness and thinking, Lead you's dumbos up the garden path, Welcome to the united kingdom, now, which one is j118, come on now ,you can tell me, I think it would be best for Martin to cut the steak, with the apropiate KNIFE of course.

Dave said...

She never mentioned the 80 billion euro bank guarantee that the people in the 26 counties were bullied into by their German and Wall St masters . Out of touch, out of sight, out of mind. She's on a different wavelength and frequency to those of us in the south. A nation once again ?

Belfast Bookworm said...

Dave;'She never mentioned the 80 billion euro bank guarantee that the people in the 26 counties were bullied into by their German and Wall St masters . Out of touch, out of sight, out of mind. She's on a different wavelength and frequency to those of us in the south. A nation once again ?'

Bernadette was there to commemorate Bloody Sunday and to add her voice to the protest for civil rights and internment without trial and the state cover up of this. Hardly the time or place to be talking about the economy.

Did you actually read the piece?

itsjustmacker said...

Marty:

Ford is like a lump of plasticine

Det Ch Insp April Casburn, 53, from Essex, was convicted last month of misconduct in public office. she was counter Terrorism Chief (MI5)

Corruption at the highest level.





MI5 officer jailed for corruption

itsjustmacker said...

clickhere for above link

marty said...

Itsjustmackers a cara goes all the way to Downing st,one big stinking cesspit!

marty said...

Belfast Bookworm a cara, She mentioned the miners ,Hillsbourgh,and Rossport so I think it was a fair comment from Dave Bernie was talking about injustice .what is happening in the republic is way beyond an injustice,the whole country is being screwed. old people dying of hypothermia,kids starving well worth a mention imo.

Fionnuala Perry said...

She also mentioned Dolours and Marian and the fact it was bloody cold and realistically people could not be expected to stand much longer.
Why are some people always so ready to criticise , not that it would bother Bernadette. She has crossed swords with the best of them and thankfully for us remains unbowed and totally unbroken.

itsjustmacker said...

Marty:

"goes all the way to Downing st,one big stinking cesspit!"

Lets not forget Stornmont as well, everyones making big money there, SF being the top makers with money from the EU. as you said in a previous post, so much for there average wage!

larry hughes said...

I find it incredulous to read today that the ex-provos in S. Armagh will not now give evidence to the Smithwick tribunal. How could they! Surely not because the RUC are flat out in 2013 still trying to jail people with the Historical Investigations Unit?

It was way past time someone woke the hell up!!

Impunity on in one hand and arrest warrants in the other...PSNI.

Belfast Bookworm said...

Marty; fair points.

But the title of this article was end impunity of state cover ups. The borrowing of German money was not covered up. I still think Dave is off the mark.

itsjustmacker said...

Larry:


Impunity on in one hand and arrest warrants in the other...PSNI.

That's the norm now, but they don't need arrest warrants, if they don't like your face your lifted under that many different sections you would need to carry a laptop around with you to decipher them.
I agree, they should not appear in person, wtf, being filmed every step they take. No Way, I say, Stay away. They have given there written sworn evidence, that should suffice.

AM said...

How come big Gerry is only sorry for the things other people did and not sorry for the things he did?

marty said...

Belfast Bookworm a cara the dictionary has various definitions of the word impunity one of which is freedom of the injurious consequences of an action, which to me means that because of the governments actions in bailing out the property developers and the banks to appease German financiers,the people who can least afford these cuts are now suffering to the point that we already have had deaths due to hypothermia and kids starving, now a cara if we cant seek justice for our own people when they are living whats the point in seeking it for the dead, I still think no matter what you or anybody else says that Dave does have a point,sin é my last on this subject..

Dixie said...

Good point Mackers.

As I've said many times, if Gerry wasn't in the IRA then he encouraged others to do what he wasn't willing to do himself.

Thats agitating isn't it?

itsjustmacker said...

Anthony:
You have to listen to him very carefully , and watch how straight he keeps his face when he stands there lying his head off.

He's a two faced lying piece of shite and his arse hole licker's are stupidly backing him up, he wouldn't think twice of dropping them it the shit. A very devious evil person.

marty said...

Anthony the bearded one never did anything to be sorry for,how do I know ?he told us so...

AM said...

Itsjustmacker,

without doubt. I always regard people like him, Pinochet, D'Aubisson, Videla et al as intrinsically evil.

SeamusMc said...

In response to Marty, Dave and Fionnuala.

I am a long time follower of TPQ however this is my first time to contribute.

Just read the comments posted by Marty and Davey and Fionnuala's response to them. In my opinion the points raised by both Marty and Davey are valid and clearly representative of their personal thoughts. I also respect Fionnuala's clear admiration for Bernadette. Bernadette is perceived as a great strong woman who has a knack of grasping the attention of everyone in her company but on the flip side she is well known for taking platforms, conditioning the crowd and disappearing.

There is an undercurrent of thought here in Tyrone that Bernadette is vying to contest the upcoming Westminster by-election on the internment issue, a seat that quite frankly would make zero difference. So the more cynical part of me at the march on Sunday couldn't help but wonder was Bernadette much like that past electioneering on a platform in Derry to regain a seat in Westminster. As an Irish Republican I strongly disagree with anyone sitting in Westminster as this gives succour to the notion of British democracy and legitimises the British occupation of the six counties. There is a world of difference between the necessity of standing Bobby Sands for election and the opportunism of those who would exploit the prison situation for political gain or those who now embrace constitutional nationalism.

As someone who has circled the block a few times I feel Bernadette's reappearance to be much more than a coincidence, I don't believe in coincidence. Time will tell.

Seamus

marty said...

Bet you include Alex Ferguson among that lot Anthony..

Belfast Bookworm said...

Seamus; you may well be correct, but bernadette would have had to have been off the radar altogether to 'reappear' - but she hasn't. She was in Conway Mill on International Women's Day in March, then in Glasgow a couple of months later. She was also in Sarsfields last year with the Lenadoon Cultural Group and she's not been quiet in the press either, penning letters in support of Marian Price over the past year. I feel she's been as vocal as ever.

Fionnuala Perry said...

SeamusMc,
Sorry to say the validity of Davy's argument in relation to Bloody Sunday was lost on me?
I think the significance of Hillsborough on the day was the exposition of another whitewash.
Realistically Seamus, on the day were you expecting Bernadette to be all things to all people.
I think she genuinely attempted to be inclusive in her condemnation of state injustice where ever.If she did not get them all in surely we can forget her that one trespass.
Her dedication to Marian and Dolours Price is consistent and sincere.It must of been incredibly difficult to stand on an already difficult day and pay such genuine devotion to the loss of one life long friend and highlight the continuing injustice levied at the other.
All my life I have listened to Republicans who home in and scrutinise every syllable spoken at rallies and debates.
With all respect Seamus I have also found few of these people would stand up to serious scrutiny themselves.
I have no idea about Bernadette's electoral intentions.
I have no idea if she intends to run for election or not.
As a Republican I would vary from Bernadette on many many fronts.
Having said that, she has a rare and consistent quality.
Not only a gifted speaker but one of the most sincere and genuine and tireless campaigners in the quest for truth and justice.
She has never been self seeking or self serving and if she missed a bit and I apologise if that bit had special signifance to Davy and the people of the Free State I for one can live with it.

AM said...

No Marty, for he simple reason that he doesn't tell us Man U won when they lost

AM said...

BB,

I think it is Ford trying to act the hard when the rest of us know he couldn't act the hard even with a condom pulled over his head.

Belfast Bookworm said...

Anthony; perhaps Ford has delusions of grandeur. Maybe sees himself as DFM one day, or maybe even, if hes a real good boy, FM.

itsjustmacker said...

Seamus:

Firstly I , and, I'm sure the rest of TPQ Bloggers are pleased that you have eventually decided to partake in discussions on Anthony's Blog, TPQ.

"As an Irish Republican I strongly disagree with anyone sitting in Westminster as this gives succour to the notion of British democracy and legitimises the British occupation of the six counties."

Would you say that SF are any better that Bernadette?, They are sitting in a British Loyalist House, under the rules of Britain, under the Rules of a British Police Force, Being paid by the British , ie, Massive expenses, with there so called average wage, which is close to £550 per week, Do You believe that crap?, I dont, also with British Soldiers Still On our Soil. I will admit, Bernadette is a great speaker, but I will also state, she is a Stalwart. I'm one of the old hands, as the younger generation says. I keep my ears open and my mouth shut, would you not say that's the best way to be?. Bernadette proved herself in that British House when she smacked the tosser who stated that British Forces were fire upon and returned fire, there was no one else to help on that day, I call that dedication. Don't be surprised if you see a shinner in The British Queens Most Holy House. They have hoodwinked everyone since 1974, deceitful ,lying, and, when I say, Lying, for Adams to deny he was never in the RA is an insult to all those who paid the ultimate sacrifice, especially those ten Brave Men of 1981, who starved themselves to death for freedom, for a United Ireland , not for them to be sitting in stormont Buildings for Their so called leader, Ive never been in the RA, He's as blind as a bat and couldn't hit a barn door with a shotgun at 20 yards!, with his arse lickers . I Call it , "Carsons House". whatever Bernadette wants to do, I will give my honest answer, I will support her, who knows, she may smack another British minister, Maybe it could be the Deputy Sheriff!, Martyboy. Who Knows. But I get the impression you are worried that if she stood for the said seat and won, you and others would be very disappinted. My advice would be, Put up an alternative to SF and Bernadette, "If she puts herself forward as a candidate, what can you lose?. Thanks again for your post and I, and, I'm sure everyone on TPQ would welcome more posts from you.

itsjustmacker said...

Marty:

"Anthony the bearded one never did anything to be sorry for,how do I know ?he told us so."

I love your quick thinking wit, I didn't believe the lying piss of shite, He's better of behind the bar ripping customers of, that way he would be safe!.

Anthony:

You could not have said a truer word, "Pinochet", one corrupt bastard who maggie hatchet invited to No 10 and tried to protect him.

marty said...

"republicans who home in and scrutinise every syllable spoken at rallies and debates" surely thats what our brains are for a cara to assimilate the information we are give and then to decide how to react to this given information ortherwise we would be no different to the sheep that follow deafly and dumbly behind the likes of Adams.and co.

marty said...

Its justmackers the bearded one did work behind a bar ok it was only for a few weeks but the tips were so good he was able to retire at an early age.like his counterpart in Derry Martybhroy he was a butcher for a while before he became a peacemaker,oh yes and he worked in a shop before that.!

Fionnuala Perry said...

'Republicans who home in on and scrutinise ever syllable'
The point I was making was not about listening it was negative scrutiny by people who in my experience have never stood up to scrutiny themselves.
Hope you realise what I meant Seamus!
Another point, research has found sheep don't follow blindly the actually stick together, which isn't a bad idea!

marty said...

Nuala it was me Marty who put that post up and you never mentioned negative scrutiny,and I have not passed any comment on Bernies excellent address other than agree with another commentator who suggested other points could have been included,your hostility I dont understand however my history is open to scrutiny and has been done so by many with and without my permission as for the sheep comment they also dont complain or question when being led to the slaughter,and I thought that similarity of q$£ followers would have struck a cord with you but hey obviously not.

Fionnuala Perry said...

I know you put the post up Marty and I thought in the context of the sentence it was obvious that it was the negative aspects of scrutiny that were being discussed.
I was not being hostile to anyone I was replying to Seamus. In my experience those who are only too happy to over scrutinise are the least able. Again in relation to personal scrutiny I don't know you in a Republican context so I could not have been suggesting you would not stand up to any such thing.
No similarities in my book between Sinn Fein and sheep, I quite like sheep.

marty said...

Nuala over the years I have been in the position to scrutinise press releases and public address,s on behalf of councillors and community groups never once have I done this in a negative fashion and indeed in my orginal post there was nothing untoward in my comment, sheep unlike Q$£,ers make nice eating..

Fionnuala Perry said...

I don't understand how this has become about you Marty?
Don't know about nice eating , but I would animals in general have the edge in the trustworthy stakes.

frankie said...

Heres an article on Irish re-unification minus all the religious politics, symbolism and sectarianism. Its about the thngs that makes the world go round ( The time for Irish unity is now -- economically, politically it makes perfect sense ) ..

Fionnuala Perry said...

I should have said even removing Sinn Fein from the equation animals more trustworthy.

SeamusMc said...

Hello there Fionnuala

In your response you have asked me if I expected Bernadette to be all things to all men, most definitely not. I never mentioned Bernadette's actual address outside of recognising two opinions in respect of it. Who are we to question the validity of an individual's opinion? As I said before Bernadette has a great knack of grasping the attention of everyone in her company which to be fair is a great skill but as a wise man once said 'talk is cheap.'


I am not in a position to question Bernadette's devotion to late Delours or Marian Price. However I would measure your idea of Bernadette's consistency with her absence from the many events organised for Marian Price.

As I have been reminded Bernadette did speak in Conway Mill. I later attended a meeting in Coalisland when Bernadette put forward the suggestion of an election and as I recall that was her only suggestion. I've been to rallys for Marian Price in Dublin, Belfast and Derry, correct me if I'm wrong but Bernadette was not. This seems to indicate two distinct things, firstly a platform is somewhat of a requirement for Bernadette to be consistent, and secondly she has tried to bolster this election nonsense.

Fionnuala Believe me when I tell you I have no problem with Bernadette but consistent she is not!


Seamus

marty said...

Frankie economically or not Ireland as a nation should be united,plantation and artificial borders have no legitimacy in determining the future of this country ..

Belfast Bookworm said...

Seamus; I really feel you're splitting hairs here about bernadette being absent from some events and her only 'putting forward one suggestion'.

Surely, like the rest of us, she is trying to hold it together by running a house, taking care of family, holding down a job. I attend the events and activities I can - and they are many, but it's absolutely unreasonable to expect any one person to be everywhere at the same time.

And only one suggestion? One more than most people then - and a fantastic suggestion as that.

You said in an earlier post that there's talk in tyrone that she'll contest the seat. When I hear stuff like this I always ask, who's doing the talking? What is their motive, what outcome are they hoping for and if there's an agenda.

Can you be a bit more specific about the talking?

Fionnuala Perry said...

SeamusMc
Bernadette has been a life long friend of Marian and Doloures. Her non/attendance at rallies for Marian would have more to do with a non-stop schedule than inconsistency. Seamus I know people like yourself turn out for Marian and that is great but if we were to measure people by attendance then a lot of other people who claim to be out and out supporters would fall short.
I know you are a genuine person Seamus and I know you would have a better grasp of the election scenario in Tyrone.
I just think Bernadette is one of the most admirable people I have ever known.

frankie said...

I agree with you marty the country should never have been split. I know from several recent posts their are people from the PUL side read this blog and just maybe they'll see the merits in unification from an economic point of view and not a political one.

marty said...

Frankie a cara no amount of argument can hide the fact that Ireland as a nation was ripped apart by the illegal and undemocratic actions of a small minority,who in turn with perfidious albion turning a Nelson eye allowed the nationalist people here be treated like something you wipe of your shoe, if we wait long enough the Polish immigrants may decide that they to shall have a piece of the country as their own, in other words a cara there was never any right morally, legally for six counties of Ulster to separated from the rest of the country,those who argue about the democracy and a "fleg" owe the people of Britain and Ireland a huge apology for the turmoil they and their ancestors have caused here..

Dixie said...

I would safely say that SeamusMc is a Shinner trying to throw the mix in.

Circling the block a few times is dropping he hint that he was in the Blocks but then again so was Gerry singing songs that were yet to be wrote.

"strongly disagreeing with anyone sitting in Westminster" is of course OK until someone from SF actually does sit their arses there. Then it'll be all part of the cunning plan.

I think SF fears more than anything Bernadette standing against them, just as I think that when the time is right that the shinners will take their seats. Maybe sooner than we think...Gerry, Marty etc stepping back to let the B-Listers take yet another step down the road of the SDLP.

itsjustmacker said...

Frankie:

Thought I would direct you to this, You might learn something from it and lead you to other info.

Click <a href="http://www.longkesh.info/2011/12/20/adams-rejected-chance-of-early-end-to-hunger-strike/>hunger strike</a> Gerry adams

larry hughes said...

i don't mind the Polish or any other ethnic group 'cornering' a wee part of Ireland. As in south boston, east glasgow, kilburn etc; as long as they abide by the rules of the nation, unlike the self serving evil 'loyalists'.

marty said...

Larry a cara these areas like China town that can be found in all the Major cities are wonderful places and a joy to visit they as you would agree enhance these cities without stamping on the local population and as we have seen in norn a prod parliament for a prod people ffs..There never was any attempt at integration here not while they had the guns and the power to trample all over the locals..

Belfast Bookworm said...

Marty; you're spot on.

And the unionists are now only sharing power because they have to, because the other option is less than favourable to them.

The have never wanted to do this and if they'd half the chance, would happily revert back to the old orange state.

Lisburn City Council is a case in point.

marty said...

A friend of Bob doh Brains was found dead in a house he rented from landord Storey,the house is in the Coolnasilla area of Andersonstown.is quisling $inn £ein now going to change its description of itself as a republican party to a united property party,they have now more property than the fucking housing executive,and not a days work done by any of them,or maybe go the whole hog and change their name from quisling $inn £ein to Landlords R Us..

itsjustmacker said...

Frankie:

Sorry about that link, just noticed it and the error.

Feel to love, it may help you as well if you want, plenty of info on it.

Click hunger strike Gerry adams

Feel te love said...

BB, Unionist and republicans sitting in stormont have no power as has been shown with many issues. What we have is the brits extricating themselves from the public view and they have put those dupes in Stormont into the firing line, thus deflecting from thier continued colonial grip on the six counties. SF have allowed the brits to run this place as before without having to take the flack they once did. The so-called peace process provided cover for the shambles we have found ourselves in now. There wont be equality here, no justice for those famillies who suffered loss because of RUC/PSNI collusion. SF have excused them from answering for thier crimes against the nationalist communities, by administering brit rule. SF has seemingly found its voice again and is trying to portray themselves as champions of the cause of Irish republican,nationalist communities. Take ShortStrand, Gerry Kelly is a member of the policing board, yet after two months of illegal protests they have to get a member of the ShortStrand community to go to the courts, for what,to get the RUC/PSNI to do the job they say they are there to do. Gerry Kelly has absolutely no chance of being listened to on the policing board,he is there to confer legitimacy The whole SF spin of equality and shared future has been stripped naked and shown to have been just big words,from a big mouth with absolutely no teeth.


@Marty. Read that column in the sunday world. We all know what these people are like. I wish some one would do up an information bulletin on all the MLAs and SF counsilors,listing thier property and business portfolios in Ireland and abroad. I dont have the resources to do this but I would distribute them around the doors of west Belfast, gladly. In these times of auserity I think it would prove to be a direct hit on SF below the waterline.

Belfast Bookworm said...

Feel te love; the way I see it, unionist rule is Brit rule. I should've explained myself better in my last post - I know stormont is an illusion of governance but it's a powersharing illusion all the same. Unionists have only bought into it because they had to, not because they wanted to...Because the other option would have been even less palatable to them.

Unionists no more want to share anything than the man in the moon. I used Lisburn to demonstrate this: a city which has never been forced to, and never willingly shared power in any shape or form in the interests of goodwill, shared future or whatever

itsjustmacker said...

I know it's off thread, but I couldn't believe it until I viewed it.

National Portrait Gallery brings us face to face with Gerry Adams.
They purchase a hand painted portrait of him.

Adams portrait at british Gallery

AM said...

Itsjustmacker,

it could be Harold Shipman you have mistaken him for. They look alike and have a lot in common

marty said...

Itsjustmackers have you seen the painting its crap and its hanging alongside Thatcher and thats two people I would love to see hung together.

frankie said...

it'sjustmackers,

I seen the error in the link. I look at the site explaining the in's and out's of the 1980/81 hunger strikes fairly often. Yesterday before I looked on the TPQ, I was reading a few posts by Dixie on slugger about the hunger strikes.

Richard O'Rawe hasn't wavered on his stance, while SF/PRM have been jumping through hoops, changed the timeline and actually agreed (without admitting it) with Richards account.

If SF/PRM even today held their hands up and said Sorry, we called things wrong and got our facts wrong.... Would that make a difference today?

PS..Just heard on Radio Ulster about the shooting of Paul McNally in 1976 and the RUC/PSNI would like to talk to anyone from Ardyone who knows anything about the killing..

itsjustmacker said...

Anthony:

Shipman done what adams has not got the guts to do:

Marty:

Yep, Ive seen the painting, one of my grandchildren could do better, they are complaining because it has some writings of Bobby Sands within it, To me that is saying he still has a neck like brass, next thing he will be selling copies!

SeamusMc said...

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back on this my internet access can be intermittent.

So Dixie reckons I'm a shinner thrown into stir the mix. Once upon a time I would've gladly worn the tag shinner, now older and hopefully wiser I can see the problem with taking people, the so called 'stalwarts' at face value. I'm glad you question my bona fides, and I would suggest everyone apply the same logic to anyone seeking support or endorsement. And no Dixie I wasn't in the blocks.

'It's JustMackers' says how he would support Bernadette as a 'Stalwart'. Surely at this point people would question the motives of yet another Stalwart ,one who maybe, again, willing to give succour the British establishment and the claim of democracy. Adams and McGuinness were stalwarts who sold the people down the river. So needless to say I for one will question every Stalwart and their motive.

But on the subject of 'warts' lets talk about the shinners for a minute, the shinners are done here in Tyrone and they know it. Unionism has been galvanised, the recent nonsense over their 'fleg' has proved this, therefore I have no doubt they will unofficially be out in force to take back the seat McGuinness held . Personally I couldn't give a curse who holds the seat because you can be sure that anyone who sits in that house is no friend of Ireland.

It wasn't that long ago it was rumoured that Sinn Fein's Declan Kearney would contest the Mid Ulster seat only to replaced last minute by Francie Molloy. This tells me they will put Francie up to fail sooner than a new leading light . I totally agree with your analysis of them and Westminster as they have sunk so low this next step is inevitable. Molloy however must be remembered as one of the first shinners who admitted he would be more than happy to administer British rule in Ireland.


So I would say at this point the shinners would be only to happy to have Bernadette act as a smoke screen for their loss of ground, to be used as a scapegoat accused of splitting the vote, a vote they no longer have. After this it would be a lot easier justified to the sf grass roots. The question is Bernadette willing to provide that smoke screen?

And lets not forget McGuinness couldn't get elected in his home town, so they had to stand him here, he got elected on a cult of personality on the belief that Martin was a stalwart, and he wouldn't sell us out, some stalwart he was! And I freely admit I bought into his and their rubbish, I didn't think the 'hardliner' would sell us so cheaply.


To address some points raised by Bookworm we all have responsibilities yet make it our duty to show support. And as for consistency on the ground it shouldn't be just when we're offered a platform, and this is my bone of contention with Bernadette.

You mentioned how it is absolutely unreasonable to expect any one person to be everywhere at the same time. Needless to say the events have been scattered, months apart, and not all at the one time, and if I and others can show a bit of motivation to show our support to the POWS I'm sure other people can too. I'm not as fit as I was back in the 70's and 80's, but as long as one of our children is illegally held by the british state or their lackeys in the 26 I'll be on the streets supporting them and I don't need a platform.

Dixie said...

SeamusMc it could be in regards yourself that once again I've picked up somebody wrong...My apologises.

It's just that I would rather see Bernadette or a stoop take the seat rather than someone who walked over graves to get where they are today.

Dixie said...

Loved this lol...

http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/02/06/sinn-fein-contaminated-meat/

AM said...

Just saw it on your FB page. Funny for sure!

Dixie said...

Who heard Gerry Kelly's display in replying to Malachi O’Doherty on todays Nolan Show?

I made this comment on Slugger regarding it....

"Anti-Republican, anti-Sinn Fein and the anti-social, Shut up!

Are examples of what SF have been reduced to in terms of argument….I’m surprised Gerry left out the oft used ‘anti-peace process’.

Gerry should pay a visit to Marty’s UK City of Culture if he wants to see the growth of Castle Catholicism, some of his own party colleagues included. I’m surprised that Unionists have yet to let the cat out of the bag; in that the whole UK City of Culture thingy is actually about the fact that 2013 is the 400th anniversary of the town receiving the Royal Charter and Derry’s name changed to Londonderry.

The clue being that those promoting the UK City of Culture are tasked with pushing the silly Derry~Londonderry when referring to it."

Hear Gerry v Malachi here....

http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/02/06/spotlight-poll-a-crisis-of-widespread-political-mislabelling/

itsjustmacker said...

Dixie:

Kelly was well under pressure, he soon let his feelings known by saying to Malachi, "SHUT UP", that's a big, NO NO ,for a so called MLA, sorry, MP , Lets admit it, he lost his bap because Malachi tied him in knots, I could just visualize the Kelly fella shooting of to the toilet and punching the doors, and calling Malachi every name under the Sun, loved that. lol

itsjustmacker said...

Dixie:

"It's just that I would rather see Bernadette or a stoop take the seat rather than someone who walked over graves to get where they are today.".

I agree 100%, but if she decides to stand and gets elected, I hope she ask the British Speaker of the house of commons ,is she allowed to Smack the Secretary of State; AGAIN. I ask everyone, what is the difference between Bernadette taking a seat and taking an oath in a British House of Parliament, and , SF taking seats in the Carsonite House, that same house which was dominated by Unionists, Trodding on Catholics and Gerrymandering the voting system to ensure they always had a majority.
We have SF MLA's on a Policing Board, which is now actually defunct because they have no say on anything, The flag protest proved that, they passed the buck onto the Parades Commission. Dixe, you also enlightened me re the 400th anniversary of the Word LONDON into Doire, I'm sure when Peter the punt and Martyboy are standing together and it is announced about the 400th anniversary, Martyboy will look at peter and clap, and, say to himself, wtf is going on here. DUP have SF exactly were they wanted them, under there thumb and under there flag, but, is that not what SF wanted, they were outflanked throughout the whole, so called, Peace process.

marty said...

Many times over the years I have felt the need to quote the line from Orwells Animal Farm.the line in which all the other animals were looking through the window at the humans and pigs and they couldnt tell the difference, Kellys behaviour made me think again about this line and how it is now nearly impossible to tell quisling $inn £ein apart from the dup.ignorance to others was always a dup mainstay.

AM said...

Marty,

I don’t see how the state can be avoided or not engaged with in a modern society. So many people need the state for a wide range of functions. Much Marxist analysis of the state has changed over the years as it sought to engage with the state and acquire strategic insights into its function. There is a wide range of Marxist literature on this. One of the great internal Marxist debates that took place did so at the end of the 60s between Poulantzas and Milliband and is still well worth a read. So getting the state to do the right thing is a useful strategy even if it compels the state to only do so against its instinct. Then there is the whole question of how power functions and is dispersed within a society. Foucault is good on this although he is not a Marxist. But I think we always need to see how power can be utilised from below to force change within a given state system. If we fail to grasp that we will cede massive ground to the state that could be taken from it.

marty said...

Anthony" how power can be utilised from below to force change within a given state system"is that even possible a cara once the masses become more than just vociferous and start organising then the state moves to protect itself with even more draconian "temporary" measures that become permanent,tinkering around the edges or participating within the state is a one way ticket into the executive suite so many have went down that road before and became as bad if not worse than what they started of complaining about.its all or nothing if we are really serious imo.

James said...

The last 2 posts were pretty thought provoking and gnerally what is was thinking. The state is not a bad thing when it is in public hands, because when the private sector gets its hands on it, our quality of life will deminish. I seen it in the UK myself. We have in my opinion a slightly higher living standard, but stormount with its administration of tory british agenda, it is slowly being stripped back. Most of this is in a covert way. I said before the tories want these austery measures to last forever if they could, they would love a return to the medievil imperialist empire. Rolling austerity devolution, implemented by SF and DUP, now if you were in exile for the last 20 years and came back here, you would be looking to get your head checked out.