Killing Prison Staff

Armed republicanism has chalked up what it regards as another success. This time it succeeded in killing a member of the Maghaberry Prison staff travelling to his work. In military terms it was an efficient attack, achieving its goal. The operational template was a hand-me-down from the era of the Provisional IRA. A ‘legitimate target’ on his way to work is ambushed and killed by armed men.

The Provisional IRA targeted prison staff over a thirteen year period beginning in 1976 shortly after the British state withdrew political status in a bid to foist the myth upon the world that the North suffered a crime epidemic for which London bore no responsibility. The most concentrated spate of attacks against prison officials occurred during the four and a half year chief of staff tenure identified by many journalists and historians as belonging to Martin McGuinness, now deputising to the DUP’s Peter Robinson in the North’s power splitting executive.

The Provisional IRA campaign claimed the lives of almost thirty members of the prison service, some of whom were killed either going to or coming from their work. Such was the determination of the organisation to kill prison staff it claimed that when a booby trap bomb failed to kill Brian Armour in October 1988 its volunteers revisited the Armour home and planted another one to ensure double effect. Their efforts were rewarded and Armour died in his car, torn apart by the force of the blast.

For today’s armed republicans the trail blazed by the Provisional IRA is the same one along which they have chosen to travel. Despite using the Provisional route map they still find the going hard. Armed with the Provisional instruction booklet they have killed no more than five members of the security services in almost four years. Of seismic concern for the targets and their families but not something likely to register on the political Richter scale. What armed republicans hope to achieve by replicating a mutant gene is something known only to themselves. 

While they were successful on this occasion the word ‘success’ is something likely only to be used by them. Outside of the prisoners in Maghaberry who are on the receiving end of prison staff malpractice including violence - and probably feel that somebody is taking up the cudgel on their behalf - and the organisations to which they belong, the bulk of people see the killing of David Black as an unmitigated failure. Amongst this body are many former prisoners who experienced the brutality of the Northern Ireland Prison Service when it was at its most bullish. Products of bitter experience they nevertheless applaud the work of individuals like Pat Ramsay and Emmet Doyle who strive tirelessly to improve prison conditions, and they give no support to actions like that inflicted on David Black.

The bottom line is that the killing of David Black is anything but a success. It is a failure of the human rights culture to penetrate an impervious destructive tradition, a failure of non-violent methodology to gain traction where it is most needed, a failure of political and strategic imagination on the part of those who conceived and executed the attack, and a failure of the Sinn Fein strategy to demonstrate to its armed offspring that killing prison staff thirty years ago, to which its gave its unambiguous support, was okay then but wrong today.

There is no doubt that many genuine grievances exist in the North’s British prisons. Republicans who have been through the mill know that the Northern Ireland Office is more than capable of producing a cover up on a par with the Lisburn Lie Machine that once reigned at Thiepval Barracks. It is counterintuitive to argue that abuse of prisoners does not take place or has not long been a feature of Northern Irish Prison Service practice, or that there is any real means of holding prison staff to account. Of the thousands of assaults perpetrated by prison officials during the five years of blanket protest not one member of the prison service ever appeared in court for any of them. Same for the well documented brutality dished out in the aftermath of the 1983 H Block escape.

Yet none of this is a licence to kill. There is no war being fought in Ireland on behalf of the Irish people against the British State. In the absence of war those once labelled 'enemy' have the same rights as civilians. There is no death penalty, no right to execute, and every right not to become the victim of homicide, politically motivated or otherwise.

Ultimately it is self defeating for armed republicans to claim that the Irish people have the right to be free from everything but armed republicanism. If the most prominent characteristic of any body of thought is its insistence on what it regards as a traditional right to kill, then the cure it seeks to apply is infinitely worse than the malaise it promises to heal. It will repel more than it will ever recruit.

A republicanism than creates rather than kills is not just a soundbite. It is an ethical imperative. Yet it shows no sign of displacing the irrational pull of tradition. Seemingly, and unfortunately, the Swiftean logic holds true: what was not reasoned in will not be reasoned out.

57 comments:

  1. Mackers

    'Yet none of this is a licence to kill. There is no war being fought in Ireland on behalf of the Irish people against the British State. In the absence of war those once labelled 'enemy' have the same rights as civilians.'

    I think you have been reincarnated as Ghandi. Did the Irish people vote for your war?

    If there is no war what is the historical crimes unit chasing after with ghusto, criminals? If the war is over why are they doing it? I fear you are getting drawn in by the gravitational pull of SF here. Have you rejoined? Sounds in parts like they could have written that.

    The failure is the non-implementation of the GFA and the failure of the political parties (in their arrogance)not to assert themselves in solving a prison issue which has needlessly dragged on and which has handed 'dissidents' a lifeline they could never have dreamed of. All this in spite of recent history demonstrating what can happen.

    Emmet is a great guy and as genuine as they come. But he may as well be pissing in the wind when the likes of McCartney can get 5 or 7 minutes airtime on tv and spend it lamenting the possible removal of prison officers frearms and their right to safe passage to work. Maybe the blanket put manners on the lot of ye??

    If they continue to play with fire and leave the dirty work to Emmet Doyle I for one wont be listening to cries of 'why did this happen' or MURDER IS MURDER IS MURDER!!!

    Until those doing quite nicely for themselves up on the hill do some genuine work, as far as i'm concerned GET IT RIGHT FUCKIN UP YE!

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  2. rite up the gobshites at Stormont i mean....before there's any confusion.

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  3. The daftest and the most ridiculous response to this useless killing was the news that loyalist paramilitaries who we were told had been stood down and weapons decommissioned were to meet to consider their response as Bob Doh Brains would say "doh didnt they kill the one before" ffs.then we witness Martybroy crying crocodile tears, this waste of space as has been stated in the post is probably responsible for more po deaths and others than any other person in the history of that grubby war.his is not an example I for one would encourage others to follow.

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  4. Lad's and Lassie's, before this descends into the usual tit-for-tat, with Tony Mc caught in the middle as honest broker let's remember, all here are just a shower of grunting neanderthal with a bit of whinging thrown in. The British administration in Dún Dónaill do not give a rat's arse what is posted here nor the insightful comments directed at them, they've gotten their queens shilling and aren't worried about anyone or anything else.
    Pat Ramsey, and a few of his stoop colleagues are the only ones doing anything to secure better conditions for Republican prisoners and secure the release of those interned by Diplock Courts.
    Martin, Gerry(s), Ray and the rest will sleep sound knowing their pay, with her majesty's head, will be safely in their accounts at the end of the month as they take off to their warm homes in Donegal.
    Next time I'm voting for the ones who put the rights of Irish people to the top of the agenda not them criticised by an Dorchas cos they couldn't look after their comrades who they let work for 1.50/hour.
    And Larrys right when he mentions the HET, it's not over for the Brits, try getting them to re-open the murders of people killed by them or have a debate on the shooting, by the UDR, of Tony Harker.

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  5. Talked to a few recently released Republicans and they for the life of them can’t understand why Black was targeted. He wasn’t the ‘nice boy’ Armour was. They all stated that his death was pointless from a prison issue perspective…..pointless full stop…..

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  6. menace-

    " all here are just a shower of grunting neaderthal with a bit od whinging thrown in "

    I resent that-i will be telling my mammy on you- we are not all like Marty and Larry you know-Lol-back to the Beano Dennis and let us grown ups talk about the issues of the day-

    A dead screw and a nice one i hear-
    everyone becomes one of the best when they die-och he wasn't the worst you know-he knew how to beat a bare back with a truncheon-

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  7. Niall; surely Black was targeted because he worked for the Prison Service and because they could? I think it was as simple as that.

    And Martin Magennis ordered to stay away from the funeral? He'll be gutted at losing another opportunity to roll out his 'traitors' speech.

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  8. Larry,

    Did the Irish people vote for your war?

    They most definitely did not. And for that reason our war was not a war of the Irish people against the British state. We can hardly claim to be acting on behalf of the people who reject us, rule them out of any decision making processes pertaining to what is done supposedly on their behalf or in their name.

    If there is no war what is the historical crimes unit chasing after with ghusto, criminals? If the war is over why are they doing it?

    There was a war but not a war of the Irish people. Some Irish people in the North waged a guerrilla war against the British state. The British police are still going after some of those people and are trying to become the authors of history. What we will end up with is a British police account of the past.
    The bulk of your comment seems more a critique of SF’s position. Which is fine. Few here defend them.
    But it is hardly the issue. Is Emmet doing the right thing or are the people who killed David Black doing the right thing?

    ‘Until those doing quite nicely for themselves up on the hill do some genuine work ...’

    Hardly relevant to the matter at hand.

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  9. Michaelhenry,

    Niall has brought some sense of reason to this discussion when you seem only to bring nonsense. I never heard of David Black and have talked to no one about him. Niall has. So we can at least consider his perspective. You just fire out vague generalisations which do nothing to inform the discussion.

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  10. mackers

    'Until those doing quite nicely for themselves up on the hill do some genuine work ...

    Hardly relevant to the matter at hand.'

    You are a tad like McCartney ignoring the protest altogether on tv and focusing on prison officer safety. Either you HAVE rejoined SF or you are just ape-ing them?

    3 yrs of protest in jail i think? As you know no-one was more cyinical and dismissive of the 'dissidents' as me. But for the sake of giving 15 or 20 guys the status that was afforded those in the cages and again eventually in the Blocks, things have been deliberately ignored and permitted to fester. The few and isolated dissidents were punished in my view for the fun of it. Status and a nice wee cell with tv and all the education and exercise they need would have removed any emotive and divisive issue that in my view resulted in Black's extra early retirement.

    McCartney for me was exposed as a calous brit scumbag rather than an inteligent ex prisoner and hungerstriker. Next time i see that wee self serving tramp in Derry i'll spit on him.

    So, surprisingly even for me, i've gone from viewing the dissidents as an ineffective joke to viewing the MLA's as a collective and dangerous disgrace.

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  11. Maghaberry has been a tinder box now for some time. I fear with the killing of PO Black this will add fuel to an already precarious situation. It has been in the gift of the authorities for some time to resolve this situation and conditions in Maghaberry but they have failed to do so.

    Does this justify the killing of PO Black? Certainly not, but there is a greater danger we as a society need to be aware, complacency.

    David Ford boasted that he had made the prisons issue “boring”. My fear is that with an incompetent minister who is unable or incapable of pushing through recommendations then we are set for a collision which will result in greater loss of life.

    Tension and apprehension has now gripped the prison, reprisal is sure to come, but not from the loyalists on the outside, rather the loyalist prison officers on the inside.

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  12. Larry,

    You on the sauce?

    Having highlighted the prison protests and conditions while you ridiculed them hardly puts me in the camp of ignoring the protests. Much of this article addresses the issue of prison staff brutality but you seem not to have read those parts.

    3 yrs of protest in jail I think?

    What years of protest in jail taught me is that republicanism is never at its strongest in terms of winning support when it is killing people but when it engaged in the most risky form of non violent protest.

    As you know no-one was more cynical and dismissive of the 'dissidents' as me.

    I think we do know, but it is your opinion and Tain Bo took you to task on it and in my view you came up short in your response.

    But for the sake of giving 15 or 20 guys the status that was afforded those in the cages and again eventually in the Blocks, things have been deliberately ignored and permitted to fester.

    There is a problem in the jails that has long been raised here and elsewhere while you were ridiculing those imprisoned. But again it is your right to hold whatever view of the prisoners you want. We can only try to persuade you not coerce you.
    McCartney for me was exposed as a callous brit scumbag rather than an intelligent ex prisoner and hunger striker. Next time i see that wee self serving tramp in Derry I'll spit on him.

    Won’t hold you to that.

    So, surprisingly even for me, i've gone from viewing the dissidents as an ineffective joke to viewing the MLA's as a collective and dangerous disgrace.

    We are all entitled to change our views but are you talking about all the MLAs or just the Shinners?

    At the heel of the hunt regardless of what SF do or don’t do, it has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of killing this guy. In my view it was wrong. It would be no more wrong were SF genuinely trying to do something about the prison rather than calling for it to be filed with even more republicans.

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  13. Mackers

    'You on the sauce?'

    'you came up "short" in your response.'

    Couple of very personal 'slights' there. On my sobriety and height. HURTFUL.

    Seriously though. I agree with Paddy O'Brien, he is seeing it correct in my view. In regard to the dissidents I have not changed my view. Their actions are futile and largely inneffective. But the MLA's in general are criminally negligent and spiteful regarding the prisoners. On their own heads be it.

    May I say that the screws family insisting that McGuinness stay away from the funeral is a sign that although SF disarmed the provos and put their collective head on the block as a sign of total subservience, the Brits/Unionists have remained true to their position. Take a redner SF and Mickey Harte, no photo op' in Cookstown this week lmao.



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  14. I think the most important thing we can take from this shooting is that despite all the lessons from our past no one has learned a fucking thing ,as Larry said this could have been avoided had those in so called authority had used the lessons of history and treated the prisoners with dignity and respect.you can only bend a twig so far before it finally snaps.the protest in Maghaberry could so easily have been avoided had those in the so called govt here exercised some authority over their justice minister and had the deal that was brokered last year implemented.republicans may have pulled the trigger but the guilt is widspread imo.





















































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  15. Larry,

    if you are on the sauce you are always welcome here. As long as you don't come up short when it's your round!

    On the family not wanting McGuinness there I would not read as much into it as you have. You might be right but I don't see it there just yet.

    This problem of dragging the past into the present will remain intense while people from the past like McGuinness continue to hang around the present. Agree with his past or not he has been responsible for too much pain for a society the size of the North to forget. David Black's family might just feel that there is something just not right about him turning up at the funeral when they feel so many prison staff were killed on his watch. Yet he pretends he was a civilian coming along offering handshakes and saying 'I would never have done anything like that. They didn't learn this behaviour from me.' The family might just feel that is too much to stomach knowing that it is just a photo opportunity as you suggest. Also families need to be given plenty of latitude in situations of emotional turmoil.

    I thought Paddy O'Brien tried to address the issue in the round and made a very thoughtful contribution.


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  16. Thanks Larry, unfortunately I am being driven by personal interests regarding the prisons issues. I and others have been forced into the prison maelstrom against our wishes. Yes I would agree that violent republicans are misguided at best, but this should not mean that they endure the inhumane conditions they are faced with everyday.
    An agreement to the prisons issue is in place awaiting implementation. Instead we have a penal system that is out of control run by bigots and loyalists, result the death of David Black and undoubtably greater hardship perhaps worse for the inmates of Roe House.

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  17. Thanks Larry, unfortunately my "thoughtful contribution" is been driven by personal involvement in the prisons issue. I have been in turmoil for a few years now sickened by the political choices taken by some while disagreeing with the armed struggle continued by others.
    Maghaberry is run by the prison officers it is they who refuse to implement the earlier agreement it is they who rejoice in the misery of others. Ultimately, it is the prisoners and their families who will suffer for this, as well as the poor Black family.
    After years of thinking I was a republican I now question everything. The one thing I will never do is celebrate the misery of others, it is this which keeps me sane, human.
    Other things that keep me sane is reading muses from Larry, Bookworm, Marty, F.Perry and even at times dare I say it, bloody Michaelhenry.

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  18. Anthony,

    'David Black's family might just feel that there is something just not right about him turning up at the funeral when they feel so many prison staff were killed on his watch. Yet he pretends he was a civilian coming along offering handshakes and saying 'I would never have done anything like that.'

    I think this is precisely why McGuinness' proposed attendance has been declined. People can distinguish between a moral and tactical objection to the killing of David Black.

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  19. Larry; im kind of agreeing with you. It strikes me that PO Blacks family made their decision on pure old fashioned bigotry.

    I heard this news early today on the radio but it was several hours before it was carried on the news websites. On the radio it was reported that the family had 'ordered' Magennis and SF to stay away but by the time it was reported fully it appeared to have been 'cleansed' to a degree. They had 'politely declined' apparently.

    Its their right of course to refuse to allow anyone access but my take on it is based on the earlier reports.

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  20. larry hughes your attack on Mackers was more like a drunken brawl than a debate.

    Thats the problem with Republicanism, if we disagree at all with one side's actions we become a part of the either side. Not a bit wonder it's the fucking mess it is.

    As soon as I heard about this killing my first thought was, whoever did it put the chances of the prison issue being resolved back for God knows how long.

    We all know about McCartney and his ilk ffs, but we must ask ourselves why do people vote for his likes? He's done fuck all for Derry. In fact his family has used the Struggle to enrich themselves. Thats no secret in Derry.

    People vote for the shinners because they want peace, it's as simple as that. The odd killing once or twice a year only helps the Provos play the Peace Process card. It keeps them in government - in employment.

    As for the prison issue, I stood at a protest outside of Derry Court House last Thursday for Tony Taylor. A few Republicans had travelled from different parts of the North. There was a few of us from Derry - a few!

    Where were all the other Derry Republicans I wondered?

    If truth be told, I knew where they were.

    They were and are too deeply divided to stand shoulder to shoulder in support of the prisoners.

    More importantly a great many more just couldn't care less anymore. Thats the hard fact. They don't support PSF but they're tired of fragmented groups trying to be the Provos all over again. I too am tired but I make the effort to support the prisoners, even though I'm certain they'll spend many years in jail - wasted lives which could be put to better use rebuilding Republicanism from the outside.

    No group can justify killing just for the sake of letting people know they haven't gone away. I say that as a Republican. I say it as someone sickened by the so called Peace Process but most of all I say it because it only drives people, whose support Republicanism needs for success, further away from us.

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  21. Dixie

    Ecellent post. Bang on the money.

    'People vote for the shinners because they want peace, it's as simple as that. The odd killing once or twice a year only helps the Provos play the Peace Process card. It keeps them in government - in employment.'

    totally agree with that. Wasn't attacking mackers, just bemused at some of his points. SF and Stormont i WAS attacking.

    The future belongs to people like Emmet Doyle who i'm very happy to say i know personally. People with no personal grudges or axes to gring from the dirty/filthy wee war. Should he ever stand for election he gets all ten of my votes!

    Robert

    regarding OO member Mr Black and his lengthy undistinguished prison officer career, like Catholic priests and child abuse, he was at the very least 'guilty' of the thousands of beatings by association and his silence. Why is the historical enquiries team not looking at those guys? As i said before, the facilitation of his 'extra-early' retirement has caused no sleep deprivation here.

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  22. Dixie,

    "People vote for the shinners because they want peace, it's as simple as that".

    People bestow more power on the Shinners than they really have. Not all People are voting for Shinners.
    If you take your own Foyle constituency as an example, at 12000 votes SF have, at best, 1/5th of the possible vote, meaning in Foyle 4/5ths of the electorate dont vote for SF.

    The actual SF vote is probably closer to 1/6th of the Foyle electorate. And to put it into some sort of context - SF out poll SDLP and the Unionist possible vote is too small to be of any relevence.

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  23. What a double whammy,a member of the KKK equivalent in the orange order and someone who locked many a door on republican prisoners.I knew this man to see and cant find not an ounce of sympathy for him or any other person involved in the continued oppression of republican prisoners.When the pIRA under the stewardship of Gerry and Martin did nt give a hoot about screws not so long ago,i find it difficult to accept their collective out-pouring of sympathy now to be one of a genuine nature.The Black familly called it as they felt it. SF try to appeal to everybody and use many faces and wear many hats but like the saying,Jack of all trades,master of fuck all, other than the zombies that vote for them.

    As for the Wilson arrest and SF response,get used to it.The RUC changed their name not their objective of heeling the hound of Irish republicanism.

    At one time in my life i did nt believe i cud hate anybody more than brits and loyalists,thanks to the latest chapter of Irish treachry by SF they now have elevated themselves to that No.1 spot. Gee thanks boys

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  24. I was scanning the headlines on nuzhound.com the day before this murder and saw this headline:

    "Number of dissident republican attacks has fallen by 20 per cent; Theresa Villiers"

    I thought that, if I was a dissident, I would launch an attack to embarrass the Tory and to knock the notion that they weren't as active as they once were.

    I can't help feeling that Mr Black was a soft touch and that it was a murder carried out to try and appear relevant.

    This is such a senseless killing. It's disgusting.

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  25. Feel te love; 'At one time in my life i did nt believe i cud hate anybody more than brits and loyalists,thanks to the latest chapter of Irish treachry by SF they now have elevated themselves to that No.1 spot. '

    Youre not on your own. If I'd a penny for every time I've heard that in the last few years I'd be rolling in it.

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  26. Befast Bookworm

    'Youre not on your own. If I'd a penny for every time I've heard that in the last few years I'd be rolling in it.'

    if it started again plenty might contemplate the UVF just to have a pop at the Shinners. lol

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  27. Larry,

    'regarding OO member Mr Black and his lengthy undistinguished prison officer career, like Catholic priests and child abuse, he was at the very least 'guilty' of the thousands of beatings by association and his silence. Why is the historical enquiries team not looking at those guys? As i said before, the facilitation of his 'extra-early' retirement has caused no sleep deprivation here.'

    I must confess to being somewhat taken aback if not repulsed by the callousness of your post. The reference to an 'extra early retirement' serves as a powerful illustration of the consequences of permitting an ideology to override basic human instinct. You have the appearance of an adherent that exists as a dehumanised husk, detatched from society by virtue of political fanaticism.
    I immediately reall a definition provided by Trimble based on the observations of Amos Oz,'A political fanatic is not someone who wants to perfect himself. No, he wants to perfect you. He wants to perfect you personally, to perfect you politically, to perfect you religiously, or racially, or geographically. He wants you to change your mind, your government, your borders. He may not be able to change your race, so he will eliminate you from the perfect equation in his mind by eliminating you from the earth.'

    Allow me to add to what Anthony said about you coming up short by cautioning you to the danger of becoming, 'One of a fabulous race of dwarfs who waged war with the cranes, and were destroyed.'


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  28. Larry;

    When you think the ranks of SF are now filled with half-baked idiots who'd run a mile at the first sign of trouble I'd say there'd be very few left to have a pop at if it started again.

    All the good people have left SF by now. Who'll defend 'the people' if it did kick off again? Michael Henry?? :-)))))

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  29. honestly ..... I know that everyone seems to be following the accepted PSNI line that "dissident republicans" are responsible for the shooting of Black. Has any republican organisation claimed the attack? Do you all know a fact that I don't ........

    I feel people are extremely quick to jump to conclusions without any proof - this could have as easily ( or more likely in my eyes) to be the work of mi5. To cement the pro and anti peace agreement divisions and to qualify why internmeny has be introduced.....

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  30. Robert

    The Belfast Telegraph that voice of "nice unionism" carried the following by Liam Clarke on Monday, " Martin Mc Guinness now deputy first minister was in on and off contact with the British government since the 1970s. That is a long wait for results which only came after the IRA options were removed by security force attrition"

    Respect, accomadation, inclusive respect, bla de bla accomadation of difference two communities one society- all the blather that couched the political defeat of Irish republicanism aka the "peace process" comes down to attrition.

    what i would ask you to accept is that groups of people you dont agree with may reserve the right to apply this framework to achieve what they would see as the defeat of the British state in Ireland.

    I note even when trying to gain the high moral ground you cant resist the little veiled threat about "destroying".

    Yours is the Trevor Ringland wing of unionism, jolly nice chaps, but wont hesitate to support the physical and mental torture of political prisoners like Marian Price.



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  31. regarding OO member Mr Black and his lengthy undistinguished prison officer career, like Catholic priests and child abuse, he was at the very least 'guilty' of the thousands of beatings by association and his silence. Why is the historical enquiries team not looking at those guys? As i said before, the facilitation of his 'extra-early' retirement has caused no sleep deprivation here.

    Well said Larry. I am so sick of the faux outrage whenever these things occur. It is as if poor Mr. Black was just an entirely innocent wonderful choir boy. Screw him and the NI prison service. No sleep lost here either.

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  32. Robert

    'I immediately reall a definition provided by Trimble based on the observations of Amos Oz,'A political fanatic is not someone who wants to perfect himself. No, he wants to perfect you. He wants to perfect you personally, to perfect you politically, to perfect you religiously, or racially, or geographically. He wants you to change your mind, your government, your borders. He may not be able to change your race, so he will eliminate you from the perfect equation in his mind by eliminating you from the earth.'

    Is that your PLANTER manifesto lmao.

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  33. Belfast bookworm.

    Saw Maskey on tv last night. SF, seemingly without wanting to 'go there' or discuss the issue are determined to resist political status for the IRA of today. The very issue that put those British agents where they are today politically. Personally I recon if the campaign was ever to kick off properly an example of the top flight of SF would be the required first phase of the slaughter. THEN a ceasefire would be the 2nd and final phase.


    Ryan

    The media complicity in the nazi like piss-process is well evident that the OO connection to Mr Black and his long service to 'THE' community (Unionist community) during the worst of the troubles were covered over. A loving hero family man..etc etc..love to set his kids down and show them that movie about the blanket men getting battered by scum. But then again that's perhaps WHY he's their hero.

    One thing I will say for the Black family biggots, they are sticking to their guns..no SF at that funeral. Am I the only one wondering did he call his kids Kyle and Kyra after Ian Kyle Paisley..?



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  34. All applicants joining SF only have one question to answer..

    WOULD YE SUCK A MONKEY'S DO-DA FOR ULSTER!

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  35. David,

    You have digressed somewhat from the point of argument. The issue I raised with Larry sought to deal with the callous nature of the discourse surrounding the killing of David Black. Moreover I flagged up the ability of ideology to suppress human nature. Accordingly your equating me with Trevor Ringland has no more relevance here than had you told me I play the piano like Barry Manalow.

    'what i would ask you to accept is that groups of people you dont agree with may reserve the right to apply this framework to achieve what they would see as the defeat of the British state in Ireland.'

    No. People generally reserve tables at restaurants or, for instance, seats at the theatre. No one can seriously be said to reserve the right to kill in the manner that you have presented it here. The vague employment of the term 'framework' is a euphemism for as we have seen the self vested 'right' to drive a car bomb into Omagh and other pointless sporadic killing. To what end? So that people might be free from that which they have democratically declared they do not wish to be free from.

    Anthony had already addressed this central issue in the course of this piece as he has repeatedly done so after each killing. His argument is eminently strong - it fits the political and ethical terrain like a glove. Yours simply falls down the democratic plughole.

    'I note even when trying to gain the high moral ground you cant resist the little veiled threat about "destroying"'

    David- a quote that involves dwarfs battling with cranes should be taken with a pinch of salt!
























    The points you raise have already been addressed in Anthony's piece.


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  36. Larry,

    'Is that your PLANTER manifesto lmao'

    No Larry - it's your profile.

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  37. Paddy O’Brien

    I couldn’t agree more – Ford is a terrible failure in his post and his lack of action has allowed the prison issue to deteriorate to this level although he can’t be blamed on his own for the British who once again continue to portray it as an ‘internal issue’ have washed their hands of it and have simply been allowed to walk away from it and also let us not forget those who have experienced the discriminatory actions and quite often brutal actions of the British penal system i.e. McCartney et al for they must also share responsibility for their lack of action in trying to resolve this…simply using Kelly’s perspective of the prison issue, ‘he’s not one of us so why should we help him ’ is a terrible indictment of how low SF/MI5 has sunk…..irrespective of one’s ‘branch’ of Irish Republicanism – an Irish prisoner in a British prison should concern all.

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  38. Nial

    100%.


    Now whilst Robert refuses to address the possible need for the historical crimes unit to address prison officer brutality....why don't we all get the hankies out and have a collective sob for OO member and life long screw mr Black. Then Robert the 'profiler' can feel a tad better. ALL TOGETHER NOW!

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  39. Here's a wee article. The unionists can't stomach a truth forum/commission (whatever) NOT because republicans would be imune from prosecution, but may I suggest because they would be asked questions themselves and have to emerge from behind their 'victim' screen.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/northern-irelands-past-will-keep-coming-back-to-bite-us-unless-we-agree-a-new-way-forward-16234437.html

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  40. Dixie,

    worry not about Larry going on the attack. He takes it so he has to be allowed to give it out. We have never yet fallen out over it and can live with Big Boys' Rules!

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  41. Mackers...

    See what SF-ism and the piss process has done...you make a point or 3 now and you are 'on the attack!' ??? deary deary me.

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  42. Larry,

    don't take it so seriously. Dixie just took it up on how you sound rather than on how you are!! We fight, we forget, we all laugh at the SF Olympic gymnastic champions and life at the Quill goes on pretty much as normal.

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  43. In the last three or so years we have had three Governors in Maghaberry:
    1) The first one brought in, an Englishman Rutherford, wanted to implement the recommended changes to the penal system in Maghaberry. His details were planted in Roe House prison cell by a prison warder.
    Fact: Nonetheless, it had the desired effect, Rutherford, the reforming governor, was gone within days.
    2) The next Governor lasted a year, despite the big salary. Opinion. Worn down by the bigots in the prison association.
    3) An Englishwoman parachuted in to implement the restructuring of the POA.
    Opinion: Looking at her interview last week I would doubt she will last the year.
    Fact: the governors have openly admitted that it is the POA that runs the prison. All bodies such as, prison authorities, David Ford are merely stooges.
    Sorry to pontificate, Irish physical force history is full of examples of "tipping points" be careful the prison issues does not become one.

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  44. Larry,

    'Now whilst Robert refuses to address the possible need for the historical crimes unit to address prison officer brutality....why don't we all get the hankies out and have a collective sob for OO member and life long screw mr Black. Then Robert the 'profiler' can feel a tad better. ALL TOGETHER NOW'

    'The parable in the mouth of the fool is like the limb of a lame man'

    It is highly unlikely that the HET will want to investigate assuaults in the jails for no other reason than it is essentially a 'cold case' murder unit.

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  45. Mackers

    I'm only kidding.. you know me. Aye if we didn't have SF and michaelhenry my life for one would be a depression! Robert has had me laughing on here a fair bit. I'm sure he can 'roll' with the craic.

    I'm hoping to do a PHD on how the British had a seriously good 'larf' both in Malaya and Norn-Iron!! Hope I can survive that comedy show.

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  46. Paddy

    'The first one brought in, an Englishman Rutherford, wanted to implement the recommended changes to the penal system in Maghaberry. His details were planted in Roe House prison cell by a prison warder.
    Fact: Nonetheless, it had the desired effect, Rutherford, the reforming governor, was gone within days.'

    so true...OO/KKK warders.

    Robert

    thanks for the clarification. Keep yer head down then lol

    Awy back to Vatican tv RTE2
    Celtic 1 Barcelona 0

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  47. Paddy; I agree with you about yer woman and her interview. I've never seen anyone so nervous - and Carruthers went easy on her.

    Can you imagine what she's saying to herself though? 'Sweet feck, what have I done coming to this god forsaken place!' Would be most likely her words.

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  48. This appeared on facebook, posted by Rnu South Down. It is deeply worrying and reinforces what many of us have been saying about the northern prison service for a long time.

    Just been informed by Cógus Pow Tony Taylor that he is getting taken to an outside hospital after the prison medic finally came and seen him and confirmed he has broken bones in his hand and wrist.

    Yesterday, Tony was attacked by an eight strong riot team who smashed his face of a prison van then held him down while the rest kicked him on the head and face. They twisted his already handcuffed hands up his back and at that point broke his wrist.

    Tony informed the S/O just now that his hand and wrist is in agony as it has been confirmed as broken, he asked would he be forcibly stripped on the way to the hospital. he was informed that he would, despite his clear injuries.

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  49. Retribution.

    No doubt it's only the beginning.

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  50. This was no fly by shooting.

    It was well planned and executed, they had to be watching Black for a while, and for a reason, they had to exact an escape route asap.

    I have not lost any sleep over blacks death, No such thing as a good Orange Loyalist screw. They are bigots.
    New I.R.A. claimed responsibility for it. another new group of republicans.

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  51. Paddy O'Brien,


    a lot of thoughtful commentary in what you had to say.

    we have a penal system that is out of control run by bigots and
    Loyalists


    Unfortunately, this is what it very much seems to be

    Marty,

    There is so much in what you say yet it goes ignored. Forget about the Justice Minister. He has become the mute voice of justice as far as prisons are concerned. The NIO, where power resides, know that the prison staff will abuse prisoners and have long covered for them as any prisoner from the blanket protest will vouch. I doubt very much David Black would have been killed had there been no prison issue although we can never be sure with people of the view that they can kill who they want and for whatever reason. There was a medical member of prison staff killed in 1989 when there was no serious trouble in the jail.

    There is an issue in Maghaberry that is an open sore. Moreover, out of all institutional reform that came in post GFA the Prison Service has remained untouched. And with the British state pushing back the reforms made in other areas the signs don’t look good for the jails.

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  52. Robert,

    Yes, some of what has been said is callous. It is unfortunate but it is where we are at. That sentiment exists and does not sanitise itself to make an appearance here.

    I don’t believe Larry is a political fanatic; the opposite in fact. I think he is pretty detached from politics and eschews ideology rather than embraces fanaticism. I feel that a lot of people who have come through prison do not see prison staff in a positive light.

    While your point about the HET may be valid it does not explain how Sammy Tweed was charged with a prison escape. Nor is there any interest on the part of the state to deal with prison staff violence during the blanket years or police torture during the 1970s.

    I always identified with Trimble’s tilt against fanaticism and those who seek political perfection. Where both he and Oz used the term fanatic I would use totalitarian. It is a mindset that I find abhorrent and frightening and one which is saturated with the culture of the bully. Larry, in my view, does much to challenge the totalitarian mindset here and at times seems to despair at the narrow-mindedness of the ideology associated with it. In some ways, when we set aside the bluster and winding up Larry reminds me of Mencken'c cynic - because he is cynical he is more humane than the idealist. Mencken preferred a government of cynics because he felt they would not try to perfect you like the government of idealists would.

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  53. Ryan,

    is the outrage anymore faux than the outrage about capital punishment in the US?

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  54. Larry,

    I am not convinced there was any bigotry in the decision by the Black family in expressing a preference for McGuinness and SF not to attend the funeral. To me it looks like they felt it demeaning to have crocodile tears shed there in furtherance of a photo opportunity.


    Robert,

    While I know and like Trevor Ringland I thought his contribution on this issue was pretty lacking.

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  55. Mackers
    i actually respect the Black family for their stance. Whether I like their associations or the fact the man himself saught no other personal self advancement than turning a key in a door, in spite of the horrors he saw at work, the family were consistent. I agree, who the fek would want McGuinness and co. there for a photo op?

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