On behalf of the Costello Memorial Committee I too want to welcome you all here tonight to Seamus’s 35th anniversary commemoration. Tonight I hope we can share the time and take a small glimpse in to Seamus’s thinking and the enormous task he faced to persuade the movement, somewhat set in its ways, of the need to change policy if we are to achieve a socialist republic.
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| Gathering at the plaque erected in memory of Seamus Costello at a spot in the Wicklow Mountains |
I believe his enormous contribution and total self sacrifice to raise our consciousness in understanding the true meaning of national and social freedom in his short lifetime will continue to have a profound inspirational influence on socialist republican thinking and the inevitable recognition that we are unwittingly in an economic war and we must fight to win our freedom.
Seamus was in the tradition of Tone, Lalor, Connolly and Mellows. Lalor who wrote against robber rights, 'I will fight to their destruction or my own.' Connolly wrote, ;You can imprison us or jail us but out of our prisons or graves we will evoke a spirit that mayhap rise a force that will destroy you. We defy you do your worst.' Seamus Costello wrote, 'I owe my allegiance to the working class' and he was true to his word. He worked tirelessly to convince the movement that the national question and the class struggle were not two competing strands but two inseparable aspects of the one struggle.
James Daly, Ard Comhairle member of the IRSP, delivered the oration at the graveside of Seamus on the 8th of October 1977 and whose wife Miriam was also a member of the Ard Comhairle and was the first chairperson of the Costello Memorial Committee. I would like to remember her also tonight who was brutally gunned down in her home by a loyalist death squad with the cooperation and collaboration of British intelligence.
I would like to read a portion of the oration:
It is touching and heartening to us in our sorrow today to see James Connolly’s daughter Nora Connolly O’Brien preside at the laying to rest of the Irish leader who has in his generation come closest to James Connolly’s stature who has interpreted his vision most faithfully and attempted most successfully to put it in to practice in our situation. His loss to us is irreparable and tragic.
Seamus Costello exhibited a greatness of the same order as James Connolly. His energy, his intelligence, accuracy and thoroughness, his humour quickness and decisiveness made him an outstanding mind and personality in this generation of Irishmen. He was both a thinker and a man of action but he was also a man of deep concern and humanity. He saw clear and far and dared greatly. He dared to take up the unfinished task of James Connolly almost single handed, as republicans and socialists all around him deviated in to reformism and one sided concentration on the class or the national struggle. Seamus Costello gave clear leadership on the unity of the anti imperialist and socialist struggle and on the need for a revolutionary approach.
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| Memorial plaque erected in Wicklow Mountains |
He was adamant that the inability of the movement to put in to practice a revolutionary social and economic programme and to educate the membership and the people in the principles of the programme was gravely hampering us building and sustaining support necessary to fulfil our struggle for a 32 county socialist republic in our lifetime. Seamus did not believe in passing the mantle to another generation. He based this on reviewing the movement from 1945. As you know the internment camps and prison gates began to open in the North in the South and in England and the thousands of men and women who had spent their time in the republican universities began to come home. When they came home they found that the movement was smashed and driven underground in both the North and the South.
A small group of people came together and decided to reorganise the movement. In the military wing of the movement the main objective was to organise, train and arm units capable of fighting in the occupied area. Little or no consideration was given to the formulation, to the forming of social and economic policy. The organising of the military went ahead as an underground effort completely divorced from contact with the people. In the years between 1950 and 1955 various military operations were carried out in the North and England with a view to capturing arms and ammunition. All these raids were carried out against British military camps and quite a large quantity of arms and ammunition were acquired which left the military in a good position both in recruitment and supplies and only deciding on the opportune moment to strike. The moment was not long coming and on Tuesday night December 12th 1956 Operation Harvest began in the occupied 6 counties.
Various attempts were made to put Sinn Fein on a sound footing between '47 and '50 with little or no success. It wasn’t until '52 that the Sinn Fein social and economic programme and the national unity and independent programme were produced. Equal attention was to be given however; most Sinn Fein spokesmen at this period tended to concentrate on the military and to a large extent ignored the social and economic aspects. Between 1952 and 1956 Sinn Fein received tremendous support throughout the country and in the Westminster election of 1955 Tom Mitchell and Philip Clarke were elected MP’S for Mid Ulster and Fermanagh/Tyrone respectively. The support for Sinn Fein during those years came about mainly as a result of the enthusiasm created by the arms raids. With the launching of Operation Harvest in '56 Sinn Fein received even greater support and in April of '57 four Sinn Fein TD’s were elected in the 26 counties general election.
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| Panel at Seamus Costello 35th Anniversary Commemoration Newtown-Mount-Kennedy, County Wicklow L to R Councillor Louise Minahan (Eirigi), Dr Ruan O’ Donnell ( Senior Historian), John Davis (Costello Memorial Committee), Sean Doyle ( Costello Memorial Committee, Clann Eirigi and Independent Workers Union) , Padraig Madden IRSP, And Brian Rees ( Costello Memorial Committee). |
This was majorly due to the military campaign and very little was gained as very few people knew about their social and economic policy. In fact most people regarded Sinn Fein as merely an anti partition organisation who would cease to exist if we could end partition. Shortly after the middle of '57 the tempo of military action decreased and so did support for Sinn Fein with the result in the election of 1961 we lost our four seats in the 26 counties. In 1962 it was found impossible to carry on a proper military campaign and on February 26th 1962 the campaign ended.
There was widespread feeling that one of the main reasons of failure of the people to rally behind the movement during the campaign period was the inability of Sinn Fein to produce a revolutionary social and economic programme. Much debate was to follow and the complete programme was then submitted to the “65 Ard Fheis and accepted.
The principle aim of Sinn Fein policy would be to bring about the situation whereby the resources of the country are owned by the Irish people and are developed in such a way as to give the highest standard of living to the maximum number of people at home in Ireland. Ownership of land must be addressed and an upper limit set on the amount that can be owned by one person and to confiscate any excess of that figure and organise it as a co-op to benefit the workers run properly there would be a tremendous demand from people for the setting up of further co-ops also the setting up of marketing co-ops in towns and cities in industries to nationalise the key industries with eventual aim of co-operative ownership by the workers.
We believe that capitalism whether it be native or foreign must be made subservient to the rights of the Irish people. In the field of finance our policy is to make our financial resources work for the betterment of the people as a whole. Nationalise all banks, insurance companies, HP companies and investment companies only in this way can the people of Ireland gain control of their own financial system. In rural areas the small farmers also play an important role. We believe the confiscated land of absentee landlords should be divided amongst them and true co-operatives they can arrest the flight from the land by demonstrating in a practical way to their neighbours that it is possible to gain a good standard of living by acting together. They will thereby make it impossible for any government to plan their extinction.
We believe vested interests that control the political parties will vehemently fight us. That is why we seek the support of the people for the destruction of the present political and economic system. We do not believe that reform is the answer. We therefore seek support for our revolutionary solution. In his famous Bodenstown Wolfe Tone speech in 1966 he speaks of the robber baron must be dispossessed of his ill gotten gains by the same means he used to enrich himself. He was not only a political fighter. He was a great soldier. He always asserted and played his part in ensuring the right of the Irish people to use force of arms to achieve freedom from foreign domination. He could not see the British army oppress the Irish people without attacking it decisively as Connolly did in his time. But he was a volunteer soldier of the people; he was not a military elitist, but a believer in self liberation of the Irish people by mass political activity. At the Boston conference of 1976 Dr Noel Browne after listening to Seamus for some hours articulating his vision for Irish liberation made the following comment:
They will have to shoot him or jail him or get out of his way but they certainly won’t stop him. Costello the revolutionary Marxist socialist whose ambition is of secular pluralist united socialist republic won’t go away until he gets it.
Seamus was a visionary not a dreamer, he believed political action is a logical extension of economic resistance. He believed that if the gains made by people in their economic resistance campaign are to be consolidated and expanded upon that we must offer them a revolutionary alternative on the political front.
The impending bitter resistance from the status quo opposed to any loss of control over people can be counted upon to fight any such development to the bitter end. People will support those who are prepared to fight with them for their rights. We have many examples where the Special Branch and police are maintained solely to stamp out republicanism. They have been employed to harass and intimidate farmers and trade unionists fighting for their rights.
We believe these measures are but a foretaste of what we can expect in the future because their function is to uphold the status quo just like Connolly’s Citizens Army military action will be necessary. Because even if a revolutionary political party is allowed to function without hindrance and achieve the support of the people such a party would not be allowed to assume control and form a government. The examples all over the world support this and in Ireland there is no reason to think any different.
That is why we believe that military action may be necessary as a third line of action to support the revolutionary demands of the people should the need arise and we make no apologies to anybody for this viewpoint. And a decade later in 1976 at an agricultural meeting Seamus was still fighting for the redistribution of large ranching estates amongst small farmers to make their holdings viable and save them from the destruction the EEC is planning for them.
When you compare his clarity of thought and the crystal clear speaking with the conniving reformist collaborators of today masquerading as the government of the people by bailing out banks, bondholders and speculators and proud and unrepentant as they carry out their duty to the troika and their monetary masters. Seamus Costello would have been to the fore in the resistance as he had been all his life like Connolly he believed the freedom of the working class must be the work of the working class.
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| Memorial plaque erected in Wicklow Mountains |
Loved reading that but I freely admit that I have a great admiration for Seamus Costello, and his murder was a tragic blow to the revolutionary working class struggle here, I believe had, he and Joe Mc Cann been alive today they would be calling on the people to organise and fight the states rescue of the banks and their cronies by squeezing the life out of the ordinary man and woman here.they were leaders who were not afraid to lead from the front nor would they have denied their comrades like the modern day judas,s we see every day groveling before their brit and bank masters...great post again Sean but I,m biased here,hard not to be when you read and hear about people of the calibre of Seamus Costello..
ReplyDeleteSeamus was in the tradition of Tone, Lalor, Connolly and Mellows.
ReplyDeleteNo truer words could have been spoken of Seamus R.I.P.
Marty.
I agree with your comment 100%.
Thats a great post Sean, Thank you very much for it, it's sad that some of our younger generation never even heard of , The Great Seamus Costello, I have no respect for todays So Called Republicans sitting in a British owned Stormont, taking the Queens shilling (£100,000) each whilst the foot soldiers are warned, Its do as we say, Not as we do, I have been in some tight scenarios, I was left on my own to sort it out, they were to busy lining there pockets they did not want to know, and, to this very day I am being harassed by the
HET by a certain British Agents Lying Information, and this Agent Lives in the 26 counties running car parks, served 22 years in the most Loyalist Regiment in the whole of the British Army, Royal Ulster Rifles and he is a Belfast man, before 1968 himself and his mate used to parade down our street in full military (TA) uniform going for training, I never trusted the Scum, unfortunately I cant name him, he's protected by MI5/6 to this very day, Dublin and Dundalk were beautiful places until he set foot in them with British money and Money siphoned of fro Noraid. I might be getting a visit for posting this if he is on this blog, F U, I'm ready you piece of scum.
I pity that piece of shit Itsjustmacker because long runs the fox a cara as they say,unfortunately justice will be very busy in the future as there are loads of shit other just like the one who wont be getting any christmas cards from you,
ReplyDeleteMarty cheers for understanding what I said in a previous post. As I said before I grew up in Ardoyne, I was three yrs old in 1971. I've never thrown a petrol bomb never mind pull a trigger. I basically came through the troubles unscathed, never been arrested,..it was only when I left Belfast I realised something is very wrong. Since I discovered the Blanket in 2005, I've a better understanding of what happened.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I would take a the first bus that dropped me of on the Crum. Rd/ Donegal Place, even if that meant me going up and down the Shankill Road. And I seen a working class protestant area from a bus window. Twice a week I'd 'bunk' of a puter class in the Black man Tech, go to the Divis Flats (I since discovered it was sometimes called Planet of the IRSP's) and look up a few rockabilly friends, play guitars and get drunk (mid/late 80's). While a lot of posters/readers here where doing time in the H-blocks. And I didin't see much difference in the conditions both communities lived under. I doubt much has changed.
Today in North Belfast there is a two bit arguement of the Girwood barracks planned housing project. As far as I make out they are squabbling over how many catholics get housed and how many protestants get housed. I don't know why precentages have to come into it. For example they build 100 houses. All they have to do is allocate 50 houses to both 'sides' and then look at who is in urgent need of being re-housed and do it. That may sound simplistic. But sometimes the best anwsers are the simplest.
Marty I never heard about Joe McCann until a few months ago when I said to you "I grew up thinking that there was the good IRA (provisionals) and the bad IRA (officials)". I took your advice and went into the vortex (google) and I haven't found one critisism about him (we are talking republican/nationalist circles).
My understanding is Joe McCann saw the British as the enemy. Not the unionist/protestant community.
Similar to Seamus Costello (I'm learning about him too, next is Liam Mellows. I've seen his name to often aswell) he didn't care either. He didn't want the ordinary working class person getting screwed by the system anymore. Unfortunatly I can only find small parts of two speeches he made on youtube here and here also what former 'friends thought of his views here. On face value it tells me he wasn't sectarian.
Maybe I'm out of line with my thinking. Some people may think "Frankie, you haven't a clue. You weren't beat to a plup by the 'Brit's', you didn't put your life on the line". I'll take that on the chin. But someone living in BallyMurphy, Bogside who needs housed is wondering if they spend money on heating their home or giving their kids a warm meal or do neither but pay the rent to keep a roof over their heads praying for their benefits to come in, people in the Glencairn, Silverstream have the same issues.
What gives me more hope for the future than anything the folks on the hill say is your last line in a previous post marty...
I say this as someone who is now proud to be friends with ex uvf people who have done just that ..
All I'm trying to understand is what went wrong. I don't have an 'axe' to grind...
@itsjustmackers, last (could have been earlier this yr) year on the Quill someone posted an article on 'hiding your digital footprint'. If you are concerned about what you say online use a proxy like TOR (althought even using a VNP with TOR it can be traced back). The best OS (operating system) for internet security I've found is BackTrack (Linix distro..before it was a stax). Windows has too many holes.
ReplyDeleteYour problem with the HET baffles me. Similar to SF and the Truth and Reconcillation project they harp on about, SF have to come clean with 'dissidents' first. And if the HET want to show the world they don't have an agenda they should start looking at the RUC first. But then again ex RUC are employed as HET members/staff. So how they can claim to be objective, fair etc...beats me.
But instead itsjustmackers they 'pick' on people like yourself and Anthony to make up the numbers!!!!
Mr HET as Elvis Presley said in a song...
Clean up your own backyard, Oh don't you hand me none of your lines, Clean up your own backyard, You tend to your business, I'll tend to mine
I think the money spent on investigating what happened in the past could be put to better use in solving the problems of today. And they are basic social issues (housing, giving kids somewhere to go and develope rather than selling drugs, breaking into homes..mugging OAP's). One day people are going to have to draw a line in the sands (as hard as that is to stomach for some). How many people got screwed due to the RBS/Ulster Bank fiasco earlier this year? All because someone decided to move their IT dept. overseas in some cost cutting exercise! And add insult to injury only fine them a few quid.
If the o6c are as British as Finchley then why did the Ulster Bank fcuk up continue weeks after in the North and South than in mainland Britain?
I was led to belive that the GFA would bring people together. Thats a load of bullshit. There have been more 'peace lines'(<--best oxymornon I've came across) or heightened since 1998 than before it. And here's me in my naivety thinking peace meant building bridges instead of build walls!!!
Today in the Belfast Telegraph Brain Rowan talked about the RNU document. What he fails to understand is a lot of grievences on the republican side, loyalists have the same gripes. And that the GFA was a stich up anyway you look at it.
When growing up in Ardoyne my parents house was burgled and the RUC came and did nothing else than give my father a crime n°. At the same time several other houses were broken into. Within 2 weeks the people involved got knee capped. I call it poetic justice. That was the early 80's. I felt safe in Ardoyne. I believed SF and the wider PRM belived in 'looking after your own'. Then a while back I read a piece in Ardoyne Republicans blog about a gang running amok in west Belfast who are allegedly behind the desecration of Joe o'Conors grave. And as far as I know they are still running amok, breaking into houses, terrorising people and the PSNI do nothing? If I went tomorrow and took a sledge hammer to Bobby Sands grave and it was believed I was behind it the best possible outcome for me would be six packed and exciled..Chances are I'd get a bullet in the head.
I'm not sure if anyone can understand what I'm trying to say..But I think SF have seriously dropped the ball....
Frankie thank you a cara for your kind words but really all I do is to speak the truth not some party line.you should not knock yourself for not being sucked into the dirty and grubby conflict that we have just survived, for there is plenty on both sides who were up to their necks in it,and have walked away rich men on the backs of so many dead,some like Adams allowing the bravest of the brave to die for his ego and political ambitions.. Costello,Mc Cann Maura Drumm and others would have stopped that man and his cronies from reaping the rewards of their treachery, Mellows was something else another great Irishman murdered by people who had the cheek to call themselves republican, Frankie what passed here recently for a revolutionary uprising was nothing more than ambitious politicians with bombs getting on to the gravy train and no expense in life spared.the real work has to be done uniting the working class of both religions and none to work and fight for change and real change that makes all our lives better not just a chosen few.carry on reading about those great men a cara they are worth the read. .
ReplyDeleteMarty you nor no one have to thank me for anything. It's people like yourself (and other posters here) help me to understand what happened. I've three kids born and raised in France and my oldest who is 18 sometimes ask's me "Daddy, what happened in the North?"
ReplyDeleteA lot of times I've no answers. I believe the transcripts in Boston College hold at least 50+1% of the truth. And I hope one day to have a collection of books and let them make their own minds up.
I'll give an example AP/RN wrote a piece about the death of Kieran Nugent.
What they forgot to mention was what Brendan Hughes said...
"There are many people who have gone through this whole struggle and have gone off their heads. Kieran Nugent, one of the first blanket men, finished up with people calling him a water rat, drinking wine at the side of a river. Loads of others have just died off," he said.
I don't want to read a sanatised version of what went wrong.
Parallels on how Brendan Hughes was treated and even Anthony was treated by the PRM can easily seen by the demise of Kieran Nugent . An organisation they gave their lives too. Only to find themselves shunned or forgotten because they had a different stand or 'hue' of republcanism? Or my understanding Kieran had problems in coming to terms with his past. I'll hazzard a guess and say the same things happen on the loyalist side.
As fanciful as this sounds. I wonder sometimes what if ex political prisoners joined together and forced coup a d'état and kicked alot of the people in Stormount out and started tackling the real issues that concern people today.
I refuse to believe that most of the people who ended up in Long kesh/Maze or Armagh jails would have even contemplated in picking up a gun if the North wasn't a failed polictal entity. That alone makes me believe they (you) are as much a victim as someone who is widowed, orphaned....
I am convinced that the British and to a lesser extent Irish gov. played a blinder. When I localise the aftermath of the GFA and look at Ardoyne I see Martin og Meehan voicing the opinions of GARC on one side while on the other Joe Marley doing the same with CARA. All I know is their respective fathers fought on the same side for the same reasons.
I don't mean any disrepect to anyone. I'm doing my best to figure out WTF went went wrong..
Great article that. Just about summed it up to perfection for me on the IRSP stance and Costello. I mightnt have agreed with the success of the military strategy at that particular time, or today. However, his principles, economics, sociol and national,simply in my opinion are as relevant as they are today. So what has changed? The IRSP have ceased military operations and look as if they are advancing in a political direction. This is good, I think they could do alright in the future.There has been a lot of changes for SF that people could not even imagined. From not wanting civil rights, stormount, ceasefires, reforms,equality issues to a 360 flip in this direction. They are doing the imperialist work for the imperialist, no matter what spin they put on it. Looking forward to G8 in Fermanagh, how will SF, sell that to their Left wing base in the free state and here? Surely, someone will hold them to court for speaking out the two corners of your mouth, sham fighting austerity measures, and promoting the largest gathering of right wing powerful capitalists on the planet. I am certainly not a visionary, but I see a whole load of lie and sly to come form SF.
ReplyDeleteFrankie WFT went wrong? I have always been of the opinion that the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre killing 29 among whom were the Brits top anti terrorist spooks, forced the Brits to initiate an end game here out of which emerged the gfa where a few touts and their cronies were given the illusion of power and allowed to organise the robberies of Makro £4mill and £25 mill payoff to fund their new lifstiles and fuck the rest hence today we have the children of respected republicans almost at each others throats we have the sight of those in quisling $inn £ein and their inlaws getting almost every community job going in nationalist areas some as in Derry not even being interviewed,the corrupt at the top have been to date successful in corrupting a number of lower cronies to give the illusion how well the party has stuck together, when we take a close look at who they bused in to Belfast recently to picket the psni /ruc headquaters they were all in the pay of the party says it all really,so a cara to put it simply imo the brits called time ,dangled a carrot loaded with sweet things like power and privilege and the quisling $inn £ein grabbed it,after all its really all they ever wanted, James a cara agree with most of what you say, but the problem I see ahead for the IRSP is how are they going to deal with the results of the inquiries they had into Richard O Rawes assertion that six brave men two of which were members of the INLA were allowed to die needlessly on hunger strike by Adams and his cronies for nothing more than political advantage,those inquires have found in favour of Richard therefore the silence from the IRSP is becoming more than a bit confusing or have they been bought of if so then they are a busted flush .
ReplyDelete@ Frankie.
ReplyDeleteYour problem with the HET baffles me.
Disregard the PSNI, it's just a new name, They are still the RUC and are being run within by ex RUC Special Branch, those same men who were handlers of agents within SF/PIRA.
They are out to settle an old score and they believed everything there agents told them, just for £s, allowing them to murder to keep themselves safe from detection, even in the nutting squad.
You have done well to stay clear and out of trouble and I congratulate you on that, you are a 44 year old married man with 3 children, my advice to you is, stay that way, when I think of all the Marriage breakups due to internment I feel gutted for those comrades who couldn't do a thing about it.
I'm not bothered about who knows my location from browser activity, HET has my address, I'm sure the special branch/MI5/6 trolls monitor all sites like this, But what I like about the Anthony's blog is, "Its for anyone", no colour or religious bar".
In your younger days Ardoyne was a very rough Place, I could write a book about what went on in Ardoyne during the troubles, but it would have to be classed as science fiction, things that Mysteriously happened, Like Premature explosions whilst being transported to an op, Like the one in Northwick drive, but then again, it has been proven agents were very active and because they were at the top echelon of SF/PIRA they thought they could never be detected, When SF took over the Northern Command they placed themselves as the PIRA Army Council, but the British new about that, so they could do what they wanted, that's how ,"The Top Jobs For The Top Echelon" came in. That is not fiction, That is fact, Its just a pity that those ex Prisoners , ie, foot soldiers who still support PSF have been blinded and hood winked into believing that a 32 county Republic was on the cards, the only cards they were on was the top echelon's bank cards.
I say it as it was and still is and I'm glad I took no part in that PSF con.
Marty.
Thanks for those kind words, Ive been down a few times, although incognito and watched him, he has the gift of the gander, makes himself look big with his hench men(Hangers on), He's easy peasy, but His Day Will Come,
I'm with you marty that the Chinook crash played a big part and Gerry Adams was talking peace/stalement or other in private at the time. I'm under no illusions some people actually gave a huge sigh of relief and quiet cheer (from an agent of the state -->RUC<--promotion, pay rise etc).
ReplyDeleteDid the PIRA rob the Northern Bank? I only know what i've read. But asuming they did and assuming there was 600 active volunteers within the PIRA durning the troubles..That means every PIRA volunteer should be at least 40k better off (25 yrs of service to an army, 26million pound heist). At least this time my maths add up. But its only a theory.
The John le Carré stuff I'll discover that in the Belfast project.
Before marty you said about loyalism needs to wake up. I'm with you. They need re-educated in history. Martin Meehans father fought and died for a forgotten war on the Somme beside UVF men. And he commerated his death every yr.
But this summer the YVC played an anti sectarian song outside a catholic chapel (a Judge in Scotland found it offensive). And then on Remembrance Day the same song is played outside a Catholic Church !!!! If any any Unionist/ ex loyalist prisoner reads this can you explain to me WTF.
On Danny Morrisons blog I can't post and on Gerry Adams blog someone refuses to post my comments..here on the Quill I can at least ask WTF.
@James..I can't wait for the G 21+ tax summit to arrive next yr. It'll be funny, expensive and also a complete waste of time (unless you are a photographer <--They'll be Quids in).
@itsjustmackers, I didn't mean to mislead you. I'm not married and have no intention of getting married. I've three kids but not the same mothers (two moms). And yes they know each other and know I'm proud to come from Ardoyne and they are proud to be Irish. Get this for a laugh my oldest Daughter is Jewish (think about it..Ardoyne man meeting a french Jew in london (<--in my defence she was French and I was 24 or something)
ReplyDeleteMy memories of Ardoyne are vey different to yours. I can remember Northwick Drive during the mid 80's and Martin Meehan snr getting arrested because a TA/14th intell. was 'arrested' somewhere close to the TOP SHOP taken to a house in Northwick Drive (but not where the Meehan family lived)..
I don't pretend to know the details but the feeling I got was Martin Meehan was set up (lock, stock and two smokin').
I can also remember a bomb in Etna Drive I was at Holy Cross Boys then. I can remember Larry's father getting shot (only because he didn't show up for shool one day and there was a general assembly in St Gabes) My scout hut being stoned ( it was at the back of Ardoyne Chapel before the den moved). But then I didn't know what was going on except I couldn't take this bus etc (I just accepted it as normal). Most of my memories are like the Billy Plays. The troubles were a backdrop to my life then.
What pisses me off 'itsjustmackers' is I went to school with Martin og and Joe's big brother Larry jrn. i was in the same class room as the two. And my memory is they were friends.
And today I'm asking myself (yep marty)..."WTF"
@Frankie.
ReplyDelete"I'm with you marty that the Chinook crash"
The old joke which went about was, PIRA admitted Responsibility For The Chinook, they put the Mountain there.!
But Marty is right, That incident hit the British so hard they didn't know if they were coming or going, to lose so many top People in one swoop devastated them, and a special meeting was called in the "WAR ROOM" to discuss what was to be done, also, what news brief was to be given, The dirty Bastards tried to blame it on pilot error, then bad weather, Who Knows, several theories have gone around about that Chinook, Who Knows!
@Frankie.
ReplyDeleteSorry about me putting the "Married" bit in, silly of me to assume.
My partner is French Polish, I will have been with her for Ten years on 22 dec, We both like open air activities , Camping being the main one, Mostly in the south of France and Wales.
I Remember the incident with Martin Senior, I also Remember the Bomb in Etna Drive, It was placed in the Hearse of the IRA volunteer by mad dog Adair, My Late wife's cousin was killed in that explosion, I could never forget Martin Meehan, we all used to walk down the crumlin rd from ardoyne to the docks, Martin was a button man, ie, they had the pick of the work, my mates and myself just went hoping we could get a days work, and we did, I have his Book, "Show Me The Man" , by Joe Graham (The Rushlight), I remember when the Brits took over the bus depot at the top of Estorial Park and the B-Specials were shooting down from Cranbrook Gardens (and setting fire to there own houses to make sure Catholics could not get them, prior to safe evacuation from the didtrict by the brits) ,also from the top of the dumps from Oldpark into Northwick, His Bravery that day was unsurpassed, That's a man I will never forget, I remember someone from SF commented about him being a Watchman at a building site, I came down on that bastard like a ton of bricks, Ardoyne would have been over run if it wasn't for Martin Meehan. That man was and still is a legend, He never looked for trouble, but when it came, He could handle himself. R.I.P. Martin Meehan.
quisling $inn £ein <--I keep LMFAO every time I see that marty. Copy right it first.Then ask MichaelHenry to speak to either Peter McGuiness or Martin Robinson (they're on a mission to China) to pick up Tshirts and print it. marty we're both up. (I want 15% for the idea).
ReplyDeleteDone deal Frankie a cara the profits to go into the TPQ christmas party pot
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be a lot of interest in this series of articles by Sean.
ReplyDeleteMarty spewed: " but the problem I see ahead for the IRSP is how are they going to deal with the results of the inquiries they had into Richard O Rawes assertion that six brave men two of which were members of the INLA were allowed to die needlessly on hunger strike by Adams and his cronies for nothing more than political advantage,those inquires have found in favour of Richard therefore the silence from the IRSP is becoming more than a bit confusing or have they been bought of if so then they are a busted flush .
ReplyDeleteMarty, if you take your head out of your arse perhaps you'd be less confused and spew less shite. Or is it a case of bringing the IRSP down to your level of being 'bought' off? Did you even follow the IRSP's involvement in the Hunger Strike debate-did you even read the IRSP's findings? Why don't you contact the IRSP, if you're really that interested, with a view of clearing up your confusion? Maybe it's easier to mouth off a load of kak, as in above, as an anonymous poster.
Willie a cara I dont know what or where my level is and my comments are not spewed with any hate filled shite. I have indeed read the report into the seven year long investigation carried out by the IRSP,and I totally concur with the findings ie, that Richard O Rawe has been consistently telling the truth.indeed I and many others have said the same here over many years ,the IRSP position in calling for an independent inquiry into the events surrounding the 1981 hunger is what is required now to satisfy the broad republican (which I regard myself as one) community I totally agree with ,but Willie heres the rub WHEN will we the "republican community " see this public inquiry I doubt that I,ll see it in my lifetime, A cynic might say that the call for a public inquiry is a cop out for your party by spreading the load onto the "broader republican community" instead of telling us just what exactly the comrades of those brave men in the INLA,s political wing intend to do about this treachery.I say these thing as a concerned republican and not as a gobshite trying to pull your party down a cara,my point is if you and the IRSP do nothing about the inquiries results then really what else is there for the IRSP,
ReplyDeleteMarty, your comment about being "bought off" comes across as both derogatory and insulting. What exactly did you mean by that? "Bought of by who, with what and to what end?
ReplyDeleteThe IRSP, by the way, have indeed already publicly supported calls for an independent inquiry several times since this controversy began. As far as I'm aware only one other republican group, RNU, have done likewise despite others claiming the same linkage to the Hunger Strikers as ourselves. We, of course, already had our inquiry as you know, and cynicism to one side, was hardly independent nor was it a "cop out" .
I'm certainly interested in your views/ideas on how you would see an independent inquiry being set up in practical terms. Who would head up this inquiry, what powers would/could this Inquiry have regarding the summonsing of witnesses or the retrieval of British documents still embargoed? Who would finance this Inquiry, what would its terms of reference be, what powers of sanction would it have. How would you get the kitchen cabinet and the Brits to take part in this Inquiry?
Would you not agree Marty that it would be a "cop out" to sit behind your computer screen and say "sure let the IRSP sort all that out"?
Wille a cara your response is welcome and more like your usual self more reasoned and thoughtful than personal,the bought out which I have mentioned is an opinion that I have heard expressed by more than a few who believe that the IRSP has somehow fallen into the clutches of quisling $inn £ein ,I dont know a cara and therefore I pose the question, I totally understand your comments re a public inquiry , my answer to that is the family of a young lad murdered on the Whitewell rd by loyalists have just concluded their own ,Jane Winters BIRW was involved in this I believe,so it is doable a cara however you rightly point out that the chances of Adams or his kitchen cabinet appearing is next to nil,the finance is out there as there is lots of people interested in the truth of what happened in those dark days of 81,the terms of reference again simply as to your own inquiry ie did Richard O Rawe tell the truth?powers and sanctions a cara well I wish I could say what I,d really like but realistically I suppose it could only be the people pressure and political and community careers on the line if there was enough public interest generated in this, the brits will play no part for obvious reasons unless quisling $inn £ein is no longer required as the hired help..the IRSP could hold (now dont laugh) a mock inquiry using actors as the witness,s who would not appear such as Adams and his cronies and using all relevant documentation from that period ,this at least would generate publicity and keep this issue alive,one imo that should never be allowed to drop of the radar as those who like Adams and his cronies wish,like the people in Derry the truth surrounding that dirty deed needs out and to remain in the public,s focus until properly dealt with or it hounds those treacherous bastards to a fitting end,Willie I do more than sit behind a puter screen a cara , I am one of a few who walks for Marian and Matin, and I dont mean it to sound as a "cop out" if I say that the IRSP need to be seen to do something I mean it with respect a cara as Ernie O Malley said "give the people good strong leadership and they will follow"as a republican I for one would be there for your party in this Willie
ReplyDeleteI did take your remark about being "bought off" personal Marty hence my initial provocative response. Maybe I was wrong to take that personal but perhaps if you knew what I went through personally on this particular issue you'd understand why. I'm now glad you didn't bite to that provocation and accept you we're being genuine and not malicious. I have never heard it being said that we have fallen under the clutches of PSF on this particular issue or being bought off but I can assure you that is definitely untrue nor would I be a part of any such outcome.
ReplyDeleteThere has been discussion in the past about the feasibility of establishing an inquiry similar to what you have referred to above but with an international dimension such as in the inquiry set up in Cullyhanna into the murder of Fergal Caraher and the wounding of his brother Micheal. If I remember right that was headed up by Michael Mansfield QC. But, to be frank, I doubt it if the IRSP have the capability/resources/contacts to establish such an Inquiry and even if it did it wouldn't be viewed as independent. As you know we had our Inquiry and released our conclusions publicly but those findings didn't address key questions such as why did the kitchen cabinet reject the prisoners acceptance of the July 5th offer and why was the RSM kept in the dark. Key questions that only the kitchen cabinet can answer. Many believe they know these answers and maybe they do but we wanted evidence on what those motivations were and not supposition or speculation. The end goal in this controversy is of course getting the truth and answers from all involved. The key questions for us are how do we get to that end goal and how do we get the kitchen cabinet or PSF to participate.
Willie a cara when we see where we, the nationalist and republican community are today,then I suspect the answer to the treachery in 81 is now all to obvious,proving it has been a nightmare for people like Richard O Rawe, not so much in telling the truth but in getting people to believe that so called republicans could be so fucking evil.I honestly believe this issue needs to be kept high up in the public domain,it is a bugbear to quisling $inn £ein who would dearly now love to see the past buried in a very deep hole,however this is done as long as its done will always get my support,I believe we will have our day a cara but it will be like pushing water uphill, but as you know this can be done when people put their minds to the task and stick with it..I may have a pop at the IRSP but I can assure you Willie that I would be the last person to question your personal contribution to this ongoing struggle.
ReplyDeleteFrankie,
ReplyDeleteMorrison doesn’t allow comments for whatever reason. I think he said something before to the effect that he doesn’t want the hassle of being swamped with them. But his natural inclination is to censor.
What attracted you to the Blanket?
SF have done more than drop the ball; they have kicked it into their own goal.
James,
There is hardly anything new in SF speaking out of both sides of the mouth.
Marty/itsjustmacker
SF were hooked by Special Branch long before the Chinook crash.
Had the crash came a decade earlier it might have had a more profound impact but by that stage the Brits knew they had won. I doubt the security services were reeling after the crash.
Anthony what attacted me to the Blanket is easy. It was different to anything I'd ever read. Some of the writers on the Blanket, I'd read about in books and it got me thinking why are fomer prisoners openly criticizing SF. And the more I read, the more I found myself agreeing with their [the blanket] views. I'd grown up believing SF was right and everyone else was wrong. I'm now under the impression that SF has more in common with totalitarianism than marxism or socialism. Which I find odd considering SF is meant to be a party built on working class ideologies.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone from the PRM is reading this (JMO)...You have to able to accept and digest constructive criticism. Especially from people who put their lives on the line and a lot of times' the cause' before their families. Surely fromer prsioners who came through the pogroms, long Kesh, spent time on the blanket and came through the H-Blocks have a more valid point than people who joined the RM in 90's... It's pointless the PRM holding meetings and talking to the converted. It's akin to a priest talking to his congregation every Sunday.
I have personally tried to post on PRM blogs & sites to no avail I don't have an axe to grind. But I have questions I'd like answered. Personally, you (PRM) would be better in trying to get your message across to republicans who feel disenfranchised by the direction you are taking. But anytime I've read about anti agreement republicans voicing their opinions the PRM go into over drive and try to rubbish their claims. Trying to control someones thought process is nothing short of dictorial.
I would like someone from the PRM to open an 'account' here and answer a few simple questions.
Why was it acceptable for the vice president of SF to say that anyone who informs to the police about PIRA operations is a legit target in the 70's-90's but today calling for 'Joe Blogs' to do the very same thing today?
Surely todays armed republicans are doing the very same (and for the same reasons) as the PIRA once did.
What would the Vice Presidents opinion be if 'Joe Blogs' informed and got 'whacked' for doing what he has asked them to do?
If you (PRM) believe that the best way to change the status quo is from the inside out. Come out and say it. That would make sense to me. But trying to silence former friends and comrades who see things different isn't the best way to go about in trying to influence people or change attitudes. It will have the opposite affect and only harden their views..
JMO
Frankie,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your response.
I think when I look back I remembered watching the guff the Stick leadership were telling the rank and file and I used to wonder why no one on the ground ever seemed to call it as it was. So when our leaders started to take those Sticky steps I thought it time to put up or shut up. I simply asked questions and the more they sought to muzzle me the louder I barked.
It was not that myself and other were absolute in our view that we had it right but we at least wanted it explained to us how the leadership was right rather than being forced to swallow it because some leader or member of the applauding claque said it. It went against everything we had assumed to be so up until that point.
SF had no ideology other than getting elected to office. And now that they have managed that they still can’t claim to have power. They could never discuss merely censor and suppress. I think you are on the mark with your totalitarian description. That has been my entire experience with them. But it is the Stick thing. Just look at the way those with the Stick virus in the Labour Party have turned on the party chair for refusing to abandon the beliefs he had always insisted were what defined him. They just changed theirs as if they were socks. I talked to the Sticks about 1999 and some of them said to me they should have spoken out at the time. I wasn’t going to live regretting it. Even worse for those who remained silent we now know that some of those telling them to shut up were agents of the British. What a way to get shafted.
I applaud your efforts in trying to engage with SF but you are pissing in the wind. They don’t want an exchange but control.
AM,
ReplyDeleteCould you elaborate on this statement. What Guff would that be? What year? "I think when I look back I remembered watching the guff the Stick leadership were telling the rank and file and I used to wonder why no one on the ground ever seemed to call it as it was".WP and SF are totally different identities. Now you cant blame WP for current SF strategy of delivering austerity measures to the working class. In fact going political and abanding a futile military campaign is where the similarities end. I am a little perplexed at your choice of lanaguage and grouping the two together with terminology of a virus. What is the virus all about? If I feel at ease with what the WP say would I then be a carrier? lol. Also, that totalitarian, stalinist arguement, where does that come from? Surely it is lenin/ marxist thinking behind the workers party. I have heard this floating about along with trot and I cant get my head round where the labeling, possibly shaming technique is based on? What is your thinking, my ears are open.
Itsjustmacker,
ReplyDeleteWas the Etna Drive explosion not in 1977?
For me Martin Meehan was a solid soul.
Willie/Marty,
I am not sure an inquiry would add anymore to what we know. Have you met one journalist or academic who believes the committee? The only people who believe the committee are those who believe there was no decommissioning. The truth dropped slowly but took a grip layer upon layer and is not rock solid. The summersaults the committee did would take gold in the Olympics. The committee will release a statement someday saying there was no committee!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteItsjustmacker,
ReplyDeleteaccidentally deleted your comment. Could you repost please? Sorry about that.
Anthony:
ReplyDeleteNo Probs.
Yes it was 20th April 1977.
but I can now comment on your words on the late Martin Meehan.
"For me Martin Meehan was a solid soul. ".
He was, and solid as a rock, both as a Republican and a docker, belittled by his, so called masters, and given a job as a watchman on a building site, where the rich , "ON BOTH SIDES OF THE MAFIA DIVIDE" were getting richer", and, still are to this very day, colluding with each other, Orange and the Green, on what to charge on security on building sites. They are nothing but scum, there was known braver in Ardoyne that Martin Meehan, and I mean that, every time I look at Martin 'Og,(His Son) I just see his father. R.I.P. Crumlin Street Reared some brave men, But, None Braver than the late Martin Meehan.
Why did Martin McGuinness while minister for education not close all the schools and have mixed schools instead? Or at the very least over haul the education system so everyone is taught the same verion of history? The way this generation is going, it wont take much for the troubles to kick off again.
ReplyDeleteI've come to the conclusion that they are being taught different versions of history or not the facts. I'm still learning.
The founders (a lot of them) of modern day Irish Republicans were presbyterian or protestant (but socialist in their outlook). Fast foward to the time of the 1916 rising and some of them were either ex British Army or their fathers were or their fathers were members of the then RIC (but they the leaders were socialist), just before the rising James Larkin (socialist) managed to unite catholic and protestants for a short time....The relif riots again socialist principals was the reason for a unite front. Even todays PUP and SF both claim to stand for the working class.
Can anyone see a common denominator emerging?
Unfortunatly in he o6c it's the same political dinosaurs leading the two main parties. Maybe it's time for the dinosaurs to retire and write their memories. They'd make the same money giving after diner speechs.
Have a look at some the demands on an over stretched health system here
The service is already struggling to cope with escalating demand. Between 2007 and 2009, for example, demand for elective services increased by 19%. Some 13,000 more elective operations were performed over the two years and 19,000 more accident and emergency attendances recorded. Out-patient referrals increased by 86,000 and 6000 more emergency admissions were made. This increased activity took place during a period when funding grew by less than 1%.
When the welfare cuts hit home alot of people are going to be quids out.
Fuel poverty is another one. If you only read the headline it looks good but the reality is the drop in people not caught in the fuel poverty trap is 2%. That meant 42% of families in the o6c (almost half) have problems heating their homes. Read it here
The list is endless. If anyone in the PUL** community reading this thinks you are better off than your Nationalist/Republican neighbours, well you aint.
** I tried the other week to set up a profile on the PULSE forum to ask the PUL community what they thought about cutbacks and to talk about our shared history and shared future. And their BOT they use said I am a spammer. I wrote to their admin team asking for an explanation..Still waiting for a reply.
So to all the readers on the TPQ, if from time to time I ask directly to various people & parties to explain someting to myself here. This is one of the few platforms that allows me to ask questions and it isn't for the want of trying to speak to others directly.
Itsjustmacker
ReplyDeleteYes it was 20th April 1977.
Then it had to be somebody other than Adair. He was much too young.
Anthony:
ReplyDelete"Then it had to be somebody other than Adair. He was much too young."
He was 14 year old, he was spotted in Ardoyne wearing a celtic top trying to set catholics up to be murdered, he was on film talking to two RUC men saying, Sure there only taigs you's can't stand them either, little did he know then he was being recorded both on camera and sound, If i can remember correctly I think the program was called "Shoot to Kill", it was a series for Yorkshire TV, But I stand corrected if Ive got the name wrong, I had it on a Video, but I can no longer find it, But I can tell you, Adairs name was mentioned on that Bomb in Etna Drive.
Anthony:
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you on Adair Being to young for the Etna drive Bombing, I would love to know who put his name out as the bomber though.
I watched a documentary about Adair a few years ago part of which was filmed somewhere in Africa,what I could tell from that programme was that this big time gun man was not very comfortable around guns,
ReplyDeleteJames
ReplyDeleteCould you elaborate on this statement. What Guff would that be?
For example, pulled from the top of my head, that the RUC was not a sectarian force engaged in political policing; that the party had no links to racketeering or illegal fundraising; that supporting the use of supergrasses was not a blatant infringement on justice; that there were no political prisoners; that the stageist strategy would lead to the untiy of the Northern working class; that sectarian attacks by the UVF in 1975 on Party members were all attacks carried out by the INLA.
What lies do you think the WP leadership were telling?
Now you can’t blame WP for current SF strategy of delivering austerity measures to the working class.
No, you can’t but I don’t know who is blaming them for that. I think that when republicanism is attacked by a Stick virus it ends up embracing much of what it previously opposed and renouncing what it previously endorsed. You need merely look at the Labour Party down here with its heavy influence from former Sticks.
In fact going political and abandoning a futile military campaign is where the similarities end.
Not embracing Stormont, the partition principle, organised lying, an armed British police to name but a few?
The authoritarianism that you put down to Marxism Leninism was a useful device for suppressing dissent. Sinn Fein has used it in the same way the Sticks did. I suspect there was little ML about it. But you find this in organisations that have a history in militarism.
itsjustmacker,
ReplyDeleteIn the book on the UDA by Lister and Jordan they said his first UDA operation was in 1984. I just felt he was too young to be involved in ‘77.
Anthony.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but he was a skinny we shit when he tried and passed to be a Celtic supporter in Ardoyne pretending to be a taig, he looked about 16 or 17 then.
A couple of points which might clarify the Etna Drive bombing. Johnny Adair would have been 13 years old as his 14th birthday would have fallen 6 months later. Also, Lost Lives explains it was a UVF bomb and the person who made it was convicted. The people who left the 100lb bomb in a car parked four doors down from the house, from which the funeral was leaving, were never caught. It would have been too big to have been placed on the hearse.
ReplyDeleteSimon:
ReplyDeleteI stand corrected on that, thank you.
The instigator of the Bomb was the late shankill butcher Lenny Murphy, the bomb maker was an ex british soldier , "Tonto Watt who served a number of years behind bars for the three killings. One of those who died in the etna drive bombing was my late wife's cousin, with reference to the third killing, that was in beechmount a uvf bomb killed 10 year-old, Kevin McMenamin and a number of others.
Itsjustmackers--would the insigator of that particular bomb..Lenny Murphy..also have instigated it from Long Kesh? Because he was in there from April 1976.
ReplyDeleteStephen.
ReplyDeleteHe also ran the shankill butchers from that very establishment, that was to take the heat of himself because he knew he was a chief suspect.
itsjustmackers...I know that has been intimated but again with absolutely no proof. I find it hard to believe that even Murphy would " instigate" the planting of a bomb in Ardoyne while he was in Long Kesh. I believe the people who were arrested and subsequently jailed for that attack were really quite capable themselves of carrying out such a deed.
ReplyDeleteFrankie,
ReplyDeleteI think children should learn history rather than be taught the same version. I am dubious about the teaching of the one history.
AM, Frankie- I think you both have valid points regarding how children learn history. I think Frankie has a point when he questions the validity of state schools learning history from a particular viewpoint and maintained schools learning from a different viewpoint albeit from the same syllabus.
ReplyDeleteAM is right in that children have to learn by taking on board different arguments and interpretations of history but this won't necessarily be solved by having one education system. The importance of friendship between religion through interaction is maybe more important than the history syllabus in reducing sectarianism. Although AM's method of learning would surely be more academically worthwhile.
A single education system would probably mitigate sectarianism as children wouldn't be segregated for wont of a better word. That would be a good thing although without the scrapping of selection at 11 many of the fundamental problems will remain.