Marian Price should be released immediately.

Today The Pensive Quill features guest writer Mick Hall who blogs at Organized Rage. Here he takes issue with the ongoing internment of the Irish republican political prisoner Marian Price.

After the British Viceroy in Ireland Owen Paterson revoked her licence last year, Irish republican Marian Price has now been held without trial for over a year. Never mind from day one this decision was surrounded in controversy as the British government were unable to provide the license claiming it has been lost. This is not a small matter as her lawyers claim it no longer stands having been revoked, expressing his concern Daniel Holder, Deputy Director of the Committee on the Administration of Justice (CAJ) had this to say about Marian Prices case:

The case of Marian Price is particularly striking, as on the same day a Judge released her on bail in May 2011, a government Minister returned her to prison. There are other due process issues in relation to this case, not least the fact she was given a pardon under the Royal Prerogative of Mercy. The NIO claims this document only related to Marian Price’s fixed term and not life sentence for which a licence applied. Her family contest that the pardon related to both, and hence believe that the NIO had no licence to revoke. It would seem a relatively simple matter for the NIO to produce the document to settle the matter. However, apparently the pardon and all copies of it have gone ‘missing.’ Given that it could possibly change a decision as to whether a person is deprived of their liberty, one would think an investigation would have taken place as to how and when the information disappeared. CAJ has been told that the NIO have decided not to investigate this on the grounds that the pardon is ‘not relevant’ to this case.

Whatever the truth of this, the charges on which Marian was first arrested have now been dismissed, as the British judicial system in Ireland failed to submit the necessary papers that would have allowed the judge hearing the case to consider its merits. Judge McElholm reached the conclusion the prosecution had long enough to produce the necessary papers to the defence, yet failed to do so and threw out the case against Ms Price and her co defendants.

Yet still the Tory Viceroy Owen Paterson refuses to release Marian from prison. She remains imprisoned without charge or trial, which is internment by most civilised people's standards. To make matters worse she has been held in solitary confinement since she was first arrested and imprisoned, first at the top security Maghaberry jail and since February this year in Hydebank prison.

Understandably aged 57, solitary confinement without a tariff;  and a lack of exercise have taken its toll on Marian, according to her husband Jerry McGlinchey his wife's health has deteriorated rapidly since she arrived in Hydebank:

Marian is so ill that she had to be taken to a recent visit in a wheelchair. Her hair is falling out, she has lost a lot of weight, and her arthritis has got worse. She is suffering from severe depression after a year in solitary without any release date. The doctors in Hydebank have told us she's not fit to be in jail, according to them she should either be in hospital or at home.

To oppose her continued imprisonment and call for her release does not mean one is a supporter of Marian’s political beliefs, nor the organisation she belonged to at the time of her arrest. Her detention is a travesty of justice and harks back to the dark days of British rule in Ireland. You cannot have one law for some and a different law for political opponents. Such is the road to hell. If the history of the British in Ireland proves one thing, for justice to succeed it must be conducted before a judge and jury and in open court for all to see, not behind closed doors on the signature of a British politician's pen.

If the British governments representatives in the six counties believed Marian Price had committed a crime they should have processed the charges in the appropriate time period and left it for court of law to decide. This they failed to do as was clearly demonstrated by Judge McElholm when he threw out the case last week.

It is high time Marian Price was released from prison, she would not be going any where but home, if at a later date the judicial authorities in the six counties conclude they have a viable case against her, all they need do is knock on her door, something they had no difficulty doing a year ago.

To keep this sick and ageing woman in jail any longer is a judicial obscenity which reeks of bad law. Marian Price should be released immediately.

151 comments:

  1. If there was an Olympic sport of shooting yerself in the foot this case was a gold medal certainty.

    Marion fired first after being granted a pardon to do what she did. Seriously ill advised. But since the even the Judiciary and politicians have been shooting themselves in the foot with a machinegun.

    Send the woman homw. Be done with the entire thing.

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  2. Mick as usual a first class post and totally correct,Marians internment has been detrimental to her health both physically and mentally,in a so called democratic society a single unelected politican can at a whim trample over the human rights of this 57 year old mother,if we who oppose such outdated draconian measures do not make sure this wrong is righted,people like Patterson will be given the green light to interfere and erode the already limited human rights we all enjoy.I believe Marian,s internment is a warning to us all that there is no such thing as sitting on the fence when it comes to defending human rights, to ignore Marians plight is as good as giving support to those who think nothing about taking away the rights and liberty of the ordinary man or woman..

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  3. There is a funny thing. I just looked at both Danny Morrison's blog & Gerry Adam's. And into their 'search engines' I put Marian Price. And both blogs show 'NO POST'S'...but when I put in ED Moloney both came back with results..!!!!!

    Check it yourselves..

    Why are SF keeping quiet???

    Marian is being held because she simply held a piece of paper at a republican rally where a masked man read out a statement. Simple as that. She was in a no win situation. Dammed if she did and dammed if she she didn't. Much in the same way Gerry Adams had to carry the coffin of Thomas 'Booty's' Begley.

    If Marian Price & the Maghaberry dispute isn't sorted, I think the british will give Irish republicans what they don't need...Another martyr..

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  4. Frankie another thing Ireland doesnt need is another martyr,we have more than enough already,

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  5. Larry,

    what exactly did she do can you elaborate on what you mean, as by any account even the Brits appear to be lacking any substantial evidence that would afford her right to a trial? In the meantime, they have her interned as they once again attempt to link her to anything that will give them the conviction they seek to justify their internment policy.
    This is an unusual case and if precedent is set it will be a very unsettling power of internment before trial and anyone who dares to speak could without doubt find themselves in the same isolation.

    I fail to understand your position of arguing against the weak and endorsing the powerful.

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  6. Frankie,

    it takes a cast iron stomach to wade through those blogs it is a pity they do not come with an honesty translator I read Morrison’s latest rant yesterday and still have mental indigestion today their mantra being “silence is golden” quite literally.

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  7. Marty

    You are absolutely right about defending human rights, not least because they have been hard won, and not to defend them is a betrayal of those who fought for them in the first place.

    In the first half of the 1970s much of the English left sat on their hands when it came to the evolving war in the north. By the 1980s due to the war in the north, the UK state had learnt enough about counter-insurgency measures in a modern state to use such repressive legislation on us.

    During the miners strike of 1984-85, many of the repressive measures the state fine tuned in the six counties were used against the striking miners and the trade unionists and leftists who supported them.

    Mick.

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  8. Something else I don't understand. The Royal Pardon has been either shredded, lost or missing. Isn't that an acknowledgement that there is one.

    If memory serves me, a few weeks ago Dixie made the point that becasue the RP has gone AWOL, it doesn't mean it hasn't been recorded in some book somewhere..

    Even on a simple economic point of view;wouldn't it be cheaper on the tax payer if Marian was at least put under house arrest? After all the British were forced to place a nasty piece of work AKA Abu Qatada under house arrest for 22hrs a day. I'm not going to touch on MS. May's balls up for trying to get him deported..I'd like to know who tipped of his lawyers about the date for his removal had expired..

    Suonds like the line in the song 'Armoured cars, tanks and guns'..
    Being Irish means we are guilty, so we are guilty one an all

    Unless of course you aspire to SF's version of Irish Republicanism.

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  9. Statement from the Family & Friends of Republican prisoners, Maghaberry. 19th May 2012.

    In a further attempt to disrupt the campaign to highlight the inhumane and degrading treatment of Republican prisoners in Maghaberry prison, the PPS - at the request of the RUC - has now levelled spurious charges against members and supporters of the F&F group.

    These charges follow on from the recent spate of heavy handed house raids and arrests carried out over the past seven days in South Derry, East Tyrone and North Armagh.

    The house raids and subsequent charges are clear attempts by the six county state and Owen Patterson - the English Secretary of State - to stem the growing awareness and discontent around the malpractice of the prison regime and the criminal justice system. The brutal practices of strip-searching and control movement, the internment of Marian Price and Martin Corey, the illegal detention of Gerry McGeough and the use of draconian laws are all examples of how little has changed in the operation of British Rule in the six counties. Far from being the ending of the nationalist nightmare that we were promised, we are now seeing the consolidation of the six counties as a police state.

    That freedom loving people and Republicans are not prepared to accept the status of second class citizenship and turn a blind eye to these injustices has resulted in the British state forces becoming more and more desperate to quash any opposition to their mis-rule. Such desperation is reflected in the latest attempt to force the “croppies to lie down” and remain silent about their oppression.

    However, just as in the past, Irish Republicans will refuse to be cowered down by British repression and the F&F group will re-double their efforts to expose the injustices of British mis-rule. As part of the process to address all of these injustices we would also call on all of you and the Irish people to continue to support the activities of the F&F group and to do whatever you can to highlight the oppression being carried out before our eyes.

    Family & Friends of Republican prisoners, Maghaberry. PRO.

    ...END...

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  10. Entire families getting arrested now. Just when you think there can't be much new to witness, Lurgan RUC/UVF do it again.

    Frankie

    She should be released, enjoy her pardon and stay away from naughty boys in graveyards threatening everyone on the planet.

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  11. A fine call for justice. Thank you for this. The issue of why, how and by whom information about a Queen's pardon could be 'misplaced' does need investigating. I cannot imagine what Owen Patterson could be saying to the United Nations about all of this. Marian should be at home. People all over the world see this. A great perversion of justice has taken place here and continues until she is released. The UN should be demanding her immediate release.

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  12. Larry,

    you make no sense at all. Now they are threatening the entire planet.

    Now you focus on the men in graveyard make up your mind.

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  13. Tain Bo
    no disrespect intended to yourself or Marion...i sincerely believe she should be allowed home. But if I'm expected to accept she is totally innocent and played no part at all in her present predicament i'm afraid i'd have to aquire a blinkered bias on the matter akin to john's on the RC hierarchy in relation to wee boys gettin raped.

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  14. Tain Bo
    if my 'neutrality' confuses you please spare a thought for my own confusion when I see dissidents hell bent on plunging us back into war suddenly become toally 'innocent' victims the majority of whom are extremely ill and at deaths door the minute they land in a cell.

    If people want war...be up front about it. To me a lot of the campaigning is designed to maximise empathy for dissidents. Nothing wrong with that, but the neverending bellyaching is a bit rich.

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  15. The POWs put the Shitters in a position of power. Ironically, it is now the POW’s who pose more of a threat to the Shitters power, than anyone else.

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  16. Frankie,

    Morrison is quite consciously and deliberately batting for the Brits on the BC issue. It doesn’t surprise me.

    After what he did to the hunger strikers you don't really expect him to have much sympathy for Marian Price or any other prisoner.

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  17. Agreed Anthony what else can they really do now other than try to continue to keep party faithful on board,they are implicit in the murder of brave men on hunger strike and quite possibly on the outside as well,they will lash out at any and every opportunity at those who have exposed their treachery and deceit,slowly but surely the truth is emerging and its a fair bet bangers will like the bearded one will do what they do best, fuck of and leave their comrades in the shit..

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  18. From Sandy Boyer:

    Marian Is no longer the only woman political prisoner in the North. Sharon Rafferty was arrested yesterday and denied bail. She was reportedly being
    sent to Hydebank Prison where Marian is bring held.

    --
    Sandy Boyer
    Free Marian Price Campaign, US

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  19. Larry

    "But if I'm expected to accept she is totally innocent and played no part at all in her present predicament i'm afraid i'd have to aquire a blinkered bias..."

    The Courts' and due process should determine if she is guilty of anything --but she cannot be held to blame for the draconian actions of a pumped up Politician -FURTHERMORE!! guilt cannot be presumed because a politician has concluded it.

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  20. Larry,

    no disrespect intended to yourself or Marion...i sincerely believe she should be allowed home. But if I'm expected to accept she is totally innocent and played no part at all in her present predicament i'm afraid i'd have to aquire a blinkered bias on the matter akin to john's on the RC hierarchy in relation to wee boys gettin raped.

    Why would you agree she should be home and then disagree with your own thought of her guilt in the matter? Would that not discredit your, “plunge us into war fear” why indeed would you want such a dangerous mind to be free. Clearly, the courts and the very extensive British intelligence should determine her guilt or innocence the latter can determine her threat to what you term as the stability of the British State.

    Again, you digress and avoid the issue I am unaware of any interned priests. The only correlation I see in this is clearly you find Marian a criminal.

    Noticeably you leave out the female victims of the child-rapists.
    To John’s credit, he does not sway in his personal convictions and defends his position vigorously.

    My own personal opinion on the issue would not be fit for publication.

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  21. Larry,

    “if my 'neutrality' confuses you please spare a thought for my own confusion when I see dissidents hell bent on plunging us back into war suddenly become toally 'innocent' victims the majority of whom are extremely ill and at deaths door the minute they land in a cell.

    If people want war...be up front about it. To me a lot of the campaigning is designed to maximise empathy for dissidents. Nothing wrong with that, but the neverending bellyaching is a bit rich.”

    At times The Hiesenberg Uncertainty Principle presents me with some confusion.

    You do not confuse me I fail to understand your logic.

    Neutrality contradicts your comments as you unmistakably present non- impartial opinion.

    “Entire families getting arrested now. Just when you think there can't be much new to witness, Lurgan RUC/UVF do it again.”

    In this comment you protest the arrest of suspected dissidents would they fall under the “hell bent on plunging us into war” should you not be applauding the arrests as allegedly these people might have been up front about wanting war.

    I have no idea how you ascertain that most prisoners are extremely ill and knocking on deaths door.
    Are you suggesting that once a person is convicted their mind should not be free to think?

    Larry, I clearly do not share your fear, as history would show the security forces could keep the Provos/INLA in check realistically what chance would “Dad’s Army” have in sustaining a war personally I would rather see them reform and become a viable political voice.

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  22. Tain Bo
    cult-ism is where you need to be to blinker out personal reflection on Marion's part. Been down the cult road before. Seems to me independent thought, perception still a bigger issue than the prisoners...blind obedience to the 'line'?

    If she goes home tomorrow..what bellyache will replace her issue for the dissidents? Personally i'm amazed at the PSNI...their bigotry and vendetta's negate 100 yrs of history. But it was always said about 'brits' they learn nothin from history, tomorrows intersts are as far as they see.

    its a bad combination. But maybe some people need a hobby. or an income?

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  23. Larry,

    While your view on this matter will not be popular you are merely sounding a sentiment already out there. I am confronted with it regularly when I suggest to people that perhaps they could put their shoulders to the wheel.

    ‘To me a lot of the campaigning is designed to maximise empathy for dissidents. Nothing wrong with that.’

    The first sentence is the type of response former blanketmen are receiving from some republican quarters when they raise the issue.

    The second I disagree with. Far from there being nothing wrong with it, it would be very wrong if the prisoners issue was only being pushed to garner sympathy for armed activities. This too has been raised in conversations I have had.

    One problem with your take is the suggestion of sham illness on the part of people who end up in jail. The illness cases seem to apply to three prisoners. Marian, who if she wasn’t seriously depressed I would be asking ‘how not?’ On her own for that amount of time must eat into the psyche and psychological well being. Gerry McGeough has had surgery for physical ailments. He was hardly beating the war drum even if you think Marian was. Brendan Lillis was very ill but he wasn’t beating any drum either. You should rethink that aspect of your argument.

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  24. mackers
    if it's wrong for these guys [and girls] to promote armed struggle and its all about prisoners rights then i'd just like to ask; where's all the concern for prisoners in free state jails..? They are in third world conditions. It doesn't ring true that this campaigning is simply about prisoners'rights'.

    Tain Bo
    my 'contradictions' emanate not from support but from observations that the RUC are doing exactly what i thought and hoped the unionist state had learned not to do....namely persecution and vendetta.

    Dads army as you call them will likely draw false hope from this RUC bully boy tactics in the mistaken notion that it will eventually garner them support. It wont.

    I asked a Lurgan aquaintance yesterday what he thought of the 'entire' Duffy family getting arrested and he retorted 'don't give a fuck they are living in the past'.

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  25. if dissidents wish to engage in 'armed struggle' up to them I'm not going to be hypocritical like SF and condemn them for engaging the brit presence. I don't agree with it nor do i agree with them crying their fukn eyes out when they are arrested.

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  26. Larry,

    Your comments are much like the Titanic you blissfully sail directly into the iceberg and sink yourself.
    You have made personal remarks and provided no evidence to back up any of what you state.
    I clearly speak for myself I am unsure if that qualifies my opinion as cultist unless there is a self cult.
    I attach no other moniker or affiliation to my comments and clearly use independent language in my observations.
    Unlike yourself, you speak for the “us all.”

    Honestly, I cannot make sense of your logic you fail to explain your points and mask them behind idiotic cryptic fragmented sentences.

    “But maybe some people need a hobby. or an income?”

    What does this mean?
    Can you be more specific and identify those who need a hobby and an income.
    I will assume it is another cowardly swipe at your favourite pet peeve.

    My latest hobby is being the iceberg to your Titanic.

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  27. Tain Bo
    self praise is no praise at all. The war is over. Everyone should get over it and 'move on'.

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  28. tiarna
    i know not to put my hand in the fire.

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  29. 'I asked a Lurgan aquaintance yesterday what he thought of the 'entire' Duffy family getting arrested and he retorted 'don't give a fuck they are living in the past'.'

    What a disgraceful comment.

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  30. Marty,

    Just got told yesterday that students are submitting their dissertations endorsing the O’Rawe argument. In time it will be the accepted wisdom that the Committee killed six hunger strikers. Look at how many believe it now. By then it will be too late for the Committee to backtrack and say ‘we made a mistake.’ They could have got away with that at the start but the totalitarian instinct led it to go for the throat of O’Rawe. But O’Rawe’s throat was fang proof. When he defended himself he did it with aplomb. It was a case of aplomb vs a plum. There was only ever going to be one winner in that unfortunate debate.

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  31. the guys sister was murdered by loyalists...so address it to him John. His opinion i rate a hell of a lot more than any of the preist defending junk you spout.

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  32. John,

    unfortunately it is a sentiment that is more widespread than you would think. It is not just specific to the Duffy family but also to the republican physical force tradition. Its consequence is that it is hard to get people to show an interest in tackling the abuses by the state. I know that some former prisoners concerned at such obstacles and very much aware of them are discussing the best way to advance the prisoners' rights agenda.

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  33. Mackers the Duffy family are undoubtedly being victimised and have been for a very long time.

    In relation to physical force...after what has come out of the Provos and the revelations of Scap, Donaldson etc, can anyone really expect people to invest in that crap again.? One set of republicans neverendingly betrays the next set...and on and on. Time to buy a new record in 2012.

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  34. Larry
    "i know not to put my hand in the fire."

    So do most people. No Court has concluded that she has done as you suggest. My point is that you rationalize her treatment on a much lower threshold of 'you do not think she may have acted as you would'. Burden of proof and beyond reasonable doubt still stand in her favour even if you do not like it.

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  35. Larry,

    this whole thing stinks to the skies. They have been hassling Mandy Duffy for a long time because of her work on the prison issue. We always suspected that after Colin beat the Massereene charge they would come back in some way. This appears to be it.

    A sign of just how unjust the entire thing seems to be is that SF were very quickly out to ask questions of it and criticise it. This is not something SF is comfortable with doing. It exposes the party on the question of its strategic failures throughout the peace process. While Adams et al have been proclaiming that his IRA's campaign was the only successful one fought the British police activity in Armagh shows that type of statement up as threadbare. Years ago they used to intern republicans for short periods prior to the British queen coming and then release them immediately after she went. I wonder ...

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  36. Tiarna
    can you explain to me and everyone else reading this blog...for someone granted a pardon and possibly still under lisence...what would your notion be regarding her actions at the graveyard? was it a church picnic?

    seems as usual...the reality or facts aren't allowed to get inthe way of a good old fenian whinge.

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  37. Anthony would,nt those dissertations be worth reading ,the kids today are if not anything sharp and no fools,as you say qsf have missed the "get out"opportunity in the hunger strike debate by a mile, Richard may be a tough nut but he is human and I am sure that the shit they spread hurt him,especially coming from former comrades, hopefully knowing that he has got the truth out and that it is being accepted will give him and indeed others the courage to keep pushing for an inquiry into the activities of Adams and his kitchen cabinet during those darkest of days,

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  38. Mackers
    Politically is this not the scenario the 'dissidents' have been agitating towards? That's my point.

    And if they manage to get everyone fired-up where is it going? The RUC have given no confidence that their biggotry would not end in a fatal shooting somewhere along the line here. They seem purely driven by hate.

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  39. Brill letter in the Irish News today from the family and friends of Brendan Hughes re the internment of Marian,Terry Hughes,Paddy-Joe Rice,Gerard Hodgins,Carrie Twomey,Fra Mc Cullagh,Tommy Gorman, Richard O,Rawe,Danny Mc Brearty,Ivor Bell.great people to have on your side in any campaign.

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  40. Larry

    "can you explain to me ...what would your notion be regarding her actions at the graveyard?"

    An exercise of her Article 10 rights (freedom of political/religious expression) which is completely legal and legitimate -and the Courts have been on her side thus far as no case has been proven against her. You are desperately struggling to sound reasonable for your bias for concluding her guilt. If you don't like her then you don't like her, it is that simple, your dislike does not make her guilty.

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  41. Tiarna
    i dont know her not to like her. But im not impressed with her antics or politics at this stage of the game.

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  42. Tiarna
    I think its admirable that so many respectable 'veterans'and friends of hers are coming to her aid campign wise. Thats likely why they are not campaigning against conditions in free state jails. Its personal.

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  43. I am of the opinion that the arrests over the last few days of republicans in the Lurgan area may be part of pre-emptive strike by the brits in the run up to the Olympics, is the next few weeks and months going to be a re run of the past in republican areas.we had the chopper hovering over the area all weekend,one can be certain that the good people on the Malone rd did not have to put up with such disruption,

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  44. Larry

    I do not know her, I am not a 'veteran' or friend. But I totally abhor what is happening.

    That she does not "impress" you is not an indicator of her guilt --she likely does not know you nor care what you think of her antics --are you and Patterson some kind of self-appointed behavior police?

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  45. tiarna
    you sure you're not in SF you sound blinkered and nasty enough. If i did what she did i'd fully expect to be arrested. And i've no pardon nor a lisence hanging over me. She wasn't reading a prayer from the pulpit. Or hadn't you noticed that? If a loyalist held a page while a masked man threatened just about everyone in the RC community I think you'd be first to scream blue murder. Hypocrite springs to mind as with so much of these dissident antics and their cheerleaders.

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  46. Is there an injustice being done to Marian Price it certainly seems like that.
    Should she be let out of jail??
    When I first saw the TV report of her holding a piece of paper in front of a man/woman dressed in clothes we would call paramilitary or maybe he was going duck hunting or maybe he was just cold so he decided to cover his face as well, I said to myself here comes a whole lot of trouble for Marian. When a man dresses in such a fashion and then proceeds to declare war on us all who don’t agree with him because he and his buddies have received from persons unknown the right to declare such a war, and apparently helping him is a person with a sheet of paper in her hand on which we are being told there was nothing, no writing no words for the caped crusader to see.
    That’s the defence no harm done.
    Sounds like she and others she hangs around with have learned greatly Gerry Martin and Co.

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  47. Whatever the circumstances of Marian's arrest - and we have to accept that there is no consensus on it among those who post here - there is a very potent injustice governing her detention. In a society that claims to be democratic it is bad enough that a judge can jail people without the benefit of a jury, but to have a situation where a politician can jail a person without the benefit of a judge seems abominable.

    I don't agree with Marian's outlook nor do I agree with the masked men who were in the cemetery. But that in no way impacts on my willingness to demand her release.

    I just feel that the former republican prisoner in me refuses to countenance anything else. Because we give up any attachment to republican armed force does not mean we have to go over to the Brit side hook, line and sinker as some former comrades who were in jail with us have done.

    As for Larry's views, if people think those views are his alone they are gravely mistaken. I see them all the time. Wishing them away doesn't alter the fact that they are there, are widespread and are symptomatic of a perspective that many republicans fail to understand or simply dismiss.

    It is better that these ideas are explored and considered rather than silenced or hidden.

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  48. Boyne Rover
    i'm of similar vein. I think she should be let go home. But i'm not playing the 3 'wise' monkeys or playing the 'pinball wizzard' on the issue. She did what she did and it wasn't clever. Some people feel it's out of order to question. Not heading down that road again for anyone.

    Mackers.
    truely hope she's released.

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  49. Agreed Anthony we need to listen to all points of view even if they are totally anathema, mind you during the debate here about this piece of paper I couldnt help thinking about Padráig Pearse on Easter Sunday 1916 and the relevance of that peace of paper he was holding,and indeed the lives it cost.Was he wrong?

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  50. Larry,

    this is complete bunk and only highlights your on the fence position. I have yet to see any substantiation of your “observations.” To date I have asked you reasonable questions all your replies have avoided any factual data.
    Your opinions are heavily influenced by the media, are in line with PSF and the State the sweep it all under the rug, and wish it all away policy.

    My position is solely anti-interment and here I will take a liberty to address your aggressive post to Tiarna. As by coincidence, it was something I was going to post.
    If the same case were a woman holding up a statement on behalf of a masked UVF person I would oppose her hypothetical internment. Even though I loathe the UVF for both political and personal reasons, I do not agree the State should be allowed to re-introduce interment on demand.

    Larry, if you were interned I would voice my opposition.

    ”Tain Bo
    my 'contradictions' emanate not from support but from observations that the RUC are doing exactly what i thought and hoped the unionist state had learned not to do....namely persecution and vendetta.”

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  51. Larry,

    your acquaintance comment is interesting is your friend using TOE (theory of everything.)
    Living in the past and arrested in the present, would that by agreement make the PSNI also time travelers or do only dissidents use quantum mechanics and have developed a time machine.

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  52. Larry,

    clichés make little sense and usually are a contradiction how can something be and not be at the same time.

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  53. Larry

    You're not even close to identifying me, my politics, religion, or lack off. Regardless of what nerve I struck in you, laying out reasoned argument is not, as you believe, 'nasty' of me to do.

    She has done nothing anymore outrageous than the Orange brethren do not do each year. I do not particularly respect her actions --I might not even pretend to understand them but she has committed the lesser evil in comparison to Paterson and those with bitter mindsets. It is amazing how folk just like you cried about the anti-democratic actions of paramilitaries without actually taking a good look at your own warped idea of what democracy actually is, sadly the paramilitaries were often closer.

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  54. Tain Bo
    not advocating internment. Was there a lisence somewhere in all this or a pardon? Re' a time machine, if the dissidents could build one we'd all be back in the troubles. You go if you must.

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  55. Tiarna
    your politics doesn't interest me that much to be honest. Your refusal or inability to see any possible 'mistake' on Marrian's part is disturbing. I think the authorities are making a dogs dinner of an issue that could be easily resolved; let her go home, they made their point. But then the authorities here could always be counted on to screw up. That's my major concern.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Tain Bo
    if a UVF 'personality' on lisence and with a pardon held a sheet of paper for someone in combat fatigue to threaten the entire RC community i'd be wanting them put away and the key melted down. Don't think i quite believe your universal humanity on that one.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Marty
    looking at the state of the free state now with IMF and the bollox they've made of the place decade after decade; I can't say i think Pearse was wrong, but i'm certainly not convinced at this stage it was worth all the bloodshed. Are you? What will be different next time, if there is one?

    ReplyDelete
  58. Larry,
    'If i did what she did i'd fully expect to be arrested.'

    Why? She has spoken at that commemoration for years. This time it was windy, so what!

    'And i've no pardon nor a lisence hanging over me.'

    A pardon doesn't 'hang over you'. They haven't produced a licence that I am aware of.

    'She wasn't reading a prayer from the pulpit.'

    No, she was commemorating the patriot dead in a graveyard.

    BTW, Larry, would you also jail the man who set up the sound system, the chairman, the organizers, or just those who breathed the air of potential freedom in an Irish graveyard?

    ReplyDelete
  59. A warning to all writing letters to the Irish News re The Interment Of Marian Price. there is the high probability that your letter even hand delivered will go missing,

    ReplyDelete
  60. john
    patriot dead is one thing...threats to send the entire British community and establishment to join them is another. Are you still at war then John?

    I see 2 PSNI officers in Maritious with the Harte family...'Kerrboom' that for me John...bunch of hyppocrites...AGAIN.

    ReplyDelete
  61. john
    wee reminder of one of your posts.

    ‘As Ronan Kerr fronted an enemy organization I would not put that on a level with a girl whose only crime was that Larry doesn't like the GAA.‘

    night-johnboy.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Larry,

    'Are you still at war then John?'

    "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace", Larry. Nor should it be.

    Do you think everyone who was at the commemoration should be gaoled?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Larry,

    “not advocating internment. Was there a lisence somewhere in all this or a pardon? Re' a time machine, if the dissidents could build one we'd all be back in the troubles. You go if you must.”

    I shall leave theoretical physics out of it as you barely have a rudimentary understanding of the English language.

    You are clearly demonstrating your agreement with internment based on the royal prerogative and the license even though you display it with ignorant sarcasm.
    A pardon or license should not be a noose around the necks of people and definitely should not interfere with an individual’s right to free assembly and speech unless clearly stipulated under law as part of the legal agreement of the release of any former combatant.

    Exactly where should I go?

    “if a UVF 'personality' on lisence and with a pardon held a sheet of paper for someone in combat fatigue to threaten the entire RC community i'd be wanting them put away and the key melted down. Don't think i quite believe your universal humanity on that one.”

    Here you visibly express selective internment for loyalists and defend it with a sectarian view. Are you living in the past? Are you still at war with them?
    Based on your comments I can safely establish you are pro-internment.

    When I hear the word “dissident”, I associate it with political activist and not militant combatant.

    Why do you refer to them as dissidents as that might indicate some residual unspoken support or agreement?
    They obviously promote fear in you so why not call them terrorists.

    In addition, to demolish your transparent concern for the stability of Ulster I refer you to a comment you made on a separate thread.


    “Well i've another year at University to get through, so for purely personal/selfish reasons I'm voting YES. In 12 months the place can self destruct all it likes, I'll be outa here.”

    Should you be interned for making such a violent statement as long as Larry is out of here the entire country can destruct?

    ReplyDelete
  64. Larry

    Firstly: "your politics doesn't interest me that much to be honest."

    I was not trying to interest you but correct you on your incorrect and offensive presumptions of what my politics are, I quote, "you sure you're not in SF you sound blinkered and nasty enough."


    "Your refusal or inability to see any possible 'mistake' on Marrian's part is disturbing."

    I have not ruled out anything, yet again you mistake your own obviously biased and closed mind as mine. It is said of the UK that everyone is free to do or act as they wish --unless there is a law which states that they cannot do certain acts. The Court has now thrown the case against her out. The 'mistake' was entirely the Prosecutions and Barra McGrory has been squirming to save face for the PPS ever since. But then you prefer to define reality to what you think rather than what is actual.... I rest my case.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Larry just seen your question,"what will be different next time?" how about we will f##king win!

    ReplyDelete
  66. Larry,

    I stated a UVF person and made no mention of a Pardon or a License sounds like you are still bashing Marian.
    It is your privilege to infer I am a perpetrator of terminological inexactitudes (a fancy way of calling someone a liar) in my hypothetical scenario I could only prove my anti-interment stance if my highly unlikely scenario became a reality.

    I will redefine my stance I oppose internment any democratic society should oppose internment.

    ReplyDelete
  67. From Cork Prisoners Solidarity Group:

    Martin Corey, a political hostage in Maghaberry jail, Co Antrim, was refused parole on May 23 to attend the funeral of his brother Peter who died suddenly. Two years ago Martin Corey had his license revoked by the British Secretary of State in the Occupied Six Counties, the reason for which has never [...]

    Read more of this post (http://prisonersolidaritygroup.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/martin-corey-denied-parole-for-brothers-funeral/

    ReplyDelete
  68. Tain Bo
    i dont think the dissidents don't promote fear in anyone. Just sensation lost somewhere between disgust and pity. I stated the authorities are making a dogs dinner of the issue. But i continue to hold my own position that Marian did herself no favours and has responsibility for her own polical choices and actions.

    Marty
    fantasy island you're living on not this one. But i love your positivity.

    John
    what say you about the Harte family and the PSNI.? Does this not leave you a tad confused and 'betrayed'? Or maybe like with the RC church, no reality can dent your 'faith'?

    Tiarna
    you have ruled out plenty...like Marian was a twit to do what she did.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I wouldn't send theose in the graveyard to jail...just to a decent shrink.

    ReplyDelete
  70. marty
    at the end of the day all those lives were wasted for a cute-hoor free state and the IMF. No different 'next time we win' same shit. Partition was on the statute books from 1912...it was a certainty from 1914 without Ulster [ 6 counties-granted] so a tan war and civil war were fought for zero.
    At least the nordy troubles were self inflicted by the Unionist state. But its not goin anywhere and personally, Adams or Kenny aren't worth dying or killing for. Thank Marian...BUT NO THANKS.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Tain Bo
    in relation to the English language. I heard a joke about a china man who whisltled between sentences. When asked where he learned his English he replied long wave radio... in your case I'd hazard a gues to the Cryptic clues in the daily mirror crossword.

    ReplyDelete
  72. White line picket this evening 5pm.Thursday 24th....bottom of the Whiterock rd...

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  73. Larry

    "you have ruled out plenty...like Marian was a twit to do what she did."

    You are wrong again I simply don't care if she is or not. There is no law against being a twit which is fortunate for you because you would have been locked up long ago.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Larry when I say win a cara I talk in terms of winning on our terms and not trying to emulate the failed armed actions of the past, these actions should only be undertaken if there is a good chance of winning, we should push and agitate for a thirty two county socialist republic a cara because every other kind of government we have had has failed the people miserably,its one alternative that has been talked about but never tried,I agree the graveyards and ballad singers are full of hereo,s, we need to use our brains and keep our feet for dancing .

    ReplyDelete
  75. martin corey was able to attend his brothers funeral after a court case..

    and i wish the organisers of whiteline pickets would think,, there are republican that work you know and 5 oclock is a bad time..

    ReplyDelete
  76. Larry,

    At least the China man took the time to learn the language perhaps you should listen to long wave radio.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Sparky heels 5pm a cara is also peak time for people travelling home and therefore the best time to bring Marians dire situation to the max number of people, the turn out tonight was brill and I would bet Sundays march is going to be one of the biggest in west Belfast for a very long time. judging by the headlines in the Anytout news even the qsf are now trying to play catchup on this issue,so a cara hope you understand about the timing of the picket and sure we will see you on Sunday no doubt.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Tiarna
    i waslocked up long ago. how bout you?

    Marty
    cant argue with your stand. Just sad. But 500% bout the head for thinkin feet for dancing routine.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Tain Bo
    honestly thought a man of your lingual capacity would have done better than that retort...not even a 'phrasal verb'attempted...'fuck me!'

    ReplyDelete
  80. I see veteran Ballymoney qsf councillor Anita Cavlan has jumped ship over the lackluster approach that party has shown to Marians internment and indeed the whole prisoner issue,she said qsf,s calls for Marians release had been weak, well dear girl it may come as a surprise to you but your party should be cheering Marians internment if the statements from dear leader deputydog Martyboy were anything to go by , qsf really are nothing more than quislings in a puppet government and though it has taken quite a while for the penny to finally drop for you at least you can say you got out before they really flip and demand that republicans be hung drawn and quartered,

    ReplyDelete
  81. Larry,

    “Well i've another year at University to get through, so for purely personal/selfish reasons I'm voting YES. In 12 months the place can self destruct all it likes, I'll be outa here.”

    PRICELESS, if you need some financial assistance with your departure I will gladly pay the PRICE.

    Once again, you cannot answer my questions and make your predictable feeble attempt to sound funny and you fail miserably with your poor grammar.
    This removes any creditability you supposedly have as you lack integrity with your comic book /tabloid regurgitations.

    “i dont think the dissidents don't promote fear in anyone. Just sensation lost somewhere between disgust and pity. I stated the authorities are making a dogs dinner of the issue. But i continue to hold my own position that Marian did herself no favours and has responsibility for her own polical choices and actions”

    Once again an about-face but first please explain

    “i dont think the dissidents don't promote fear in anyone.”

    (Do they teach English at the college you attend?)

    What does this mean I agree with the first part, as clearly you do not think the sentence structure being the first clue.
    The second part by your own concurrence destroys all of your drama queen remarks about masked men in graveyards and Marian plunging us all back into war.

    This being directed at you and is quite unambiguous yet you fail to answer a direct question.

    “They obviously promote fear in you so why not call them terrorists.”

    You clearly disguise your answer behind “anyone” I am certain that many people would disagree with your answer. Are you calling yourself a liar?

    FACT: The very real threat and actions of militant dissidents does promote fear.

    In your infinite wisdom, do you consider their actions to be an armed struggle or a terrorist campaign?
    I ask as some of your languages lends creditability to militant dissidents in your unique agreement & disagreement logic.
    If you are as committed to peace and stability as, you pretend to be the answer should not present much of a problem. Again, I refer you to the comment that the country can self-destruct as you brag about your selfishness.

    My thought on your answer the Titanic will change course and avoid that iceberg.
    You are generous in handing out advice perhaps you should heed a little of your own advice.

    Have you considered Marian has yet to have her day in court and perhaps then, she may give an account of her alleged actions?

    ReplyDelete
  82. Larry,

    'john
    wee reminder of one of your posts'

    "‘As Ronan Kerr fronted an enemy organization I would not put that on a level with a girl whose only crime was that Larry doesn't like the GAA.‘"

    And your POINT is what?

    'what say you about the Harte family and the PSNI.? Does this not leave you a tad confused and 'betrayed'? Or maybe like with the RC church, no reality can dent your 'faith'?'

    I only have TOTAL FAITH in God and His Church. The GAA or Mickey Harte are not infallible. Nothing surprises me any more.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Larry

    "Tiarna
    i was locked up long ago. how bout you?"

    You were locked up for being a twit? Would it not be more accurate to say committed?? Owen Patterson has never suggested that he is detaining MPrice because he thinks she is a twit (even if he does think she is).

    ReplyDelete
  84. John
    RESPECT...wasn't sure i'd ever say that to ya...near wana hug ye.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Tain Bo
    FACT: The very real threat and actions of militant dissidents does promote fear.

    anyone i know just laughs at them..or walks round them layin drunk in Waterloo Place in Dery.

    The only thing keepin the dissidents going is their tout money...anything actually 'work'/detonate lately.

    ReplyDelete
  86. two cries of the dissident
    'sell-out'...and BIG ISSUE!! get it here lol

    ReplyDelete
  87. Larry,

    Checkmate!

    In your infinite wisdom, do you consider their actions to be an armed struggle or a terrorist campaign?

    As I stated you would avoid answering my question.

    “anyone i know just laughs at them..or walks round them layin drunk in Waterloo Place in Dery.

    The only thing keepin the dissidents going is their tout money...anything actually 'work'/detonate lately.”

    So you laugh at them and observe them laying in a drunken state in a very specific location and then add tout should I assume you might be subconsciously or subliminally stating you are on the payroll of the state as you are very specific about a place in Derry and the activity of alleged militant dissidents. How exactly do you know they are touts and members of any militant group unless you have specific information and where exactly would one ascertain this information?
    That is a very strange reply to a simple question I cannot qualify that as an answer unless the “anyone” you know would care to collaborate your story and what is the need you have to include “others” I have made it clear that I am addressing you.

    Again, if you laugh at them finding them amusing only discredits yourself and your fictional fear of plunging us back into war so you are just a drama queen all you have proved is that you despise Marian for your own personal reasons and mask your hatred behind politics.

    You further discredit yourself by bragging that you done time long ago in the not so distant past. Would you classify your term in jail as political, criminal or terrorist?

    “anything actually 'work'/detonate lately.” You almost sound disappointed.

    I am sure one of the drunk touts you have personal knowledge of would be qualified to answer that. Personally, one can only hope the failure to detonate stays on par with your intelligence in a constant state of deterioration.

    My opposition to internment is not an endorsement of violence.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Tain Bo
    they are an outfit riddled with touts [like the provos before them]and living in a pathetic fantasy world. They gobb-off threatening all and sundry and with no worthwhile support can only be described as a terrorist outfit..well they would be if they could get up a head of steam!

    Internment? Give them status then. Not many people missing their wee 'war'.

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  89. Larry,

    'if dissidents wish to engage in 'armed struggle' up to them I'm not going to be hypocritical like SF and condemn them for engaging the brit presence.'

    It is not just the Brit presence that armed republicans engage. It is also a widespread democratic sentiment that they assault. People have every right to be free from political violence. And that includes republican political violence.

    I think the campaign for prisoners is about their own prisoners. But republicans were always that way. In general They don't seek to deny rights to other prisoners. But it does not follow that because they support republican prisoners they are trying to build support for armed campaigns. But there are many people who will not lend support to prisoner campaigns because they do believe this. Also when Brit abuse of republican prisoners is in the mix then it adds fuel to the resentment. A British viceroy, as the letter from the Dark group termed him,
    abusing republican prisoners. It produces anger.

    ReplyDelete
  90. mackers
    People have had enough of it. My view is at this stage, after everything, in 2012, dissidents who engage in violent activities can expect to be arrested. It's their choice.

    The brits/unionists in the north are just being the animal they always were. That does need to be fixed.

    As for protesting on behalf of people i dont agree with; no way. People are more angry at dissident antics than with their treatment i believe.

    I dont believe 'NO REPUBLICAN' is safe as suggested on here somewhere. I do believe that anyone foolish enough to engage in paramilitarism today will have the full weight of the well honed repressive tactics of the state come down on them. Seems to me most people feel it 'serves them right'. Just my observation, which i can understand.

    You pays your money you takes your pick.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Larry, I don't think people should investigate in it all again. But the British have a stupid habit of bringing rebellion into being. However, the touts and agents of influence as you say will ensure it is destroyed.

    ReplyDelete
  92. mackers
    Agree totally. Unless the only reason the brits keep their agents functional is to counter any genuine future reaction. Like scap after the hungerstrikes, preventing young men volunteering. I only dread what form brit stupidity may take. Though i believe even as things stand now, even they can't fuck this victory up.

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  93. As much as I loathe some of the tactics of armed republicanism, such as the bombing of commercial targets and the acceptance (at times) of high levels of collateral civilian casualties, neither the Provos nor the dissidents explicitly targeted civilians. Indeed, as Liam O Ruairc pointed out on the PQ last November, more than half of those killed during the Troubles by the British security forces were civilians, whereas about 36% of the total killings attributed to republicans were civilians. Thus, I cannot see how you can argue that the PIRA, the CIRA or the RIRA are terrorist organisations. Nevertheless, in the absence of severe repression, how any group of rebels can justify their actions without the slightest scintilla of popular support is beyond me.

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  94. Alfie
    and what is armed action in the absence of popular support? Terrorist is a more complimentary term than hoodlum.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Larry,

    your answer is vague and by its own arrangement another inconsistency.
    You agree they are terrorists and then disagree, as they can only be terrorists if they had as you put it a head of steam or more clearly substantial support.
    Therefore, they are but they are not as they fail to meet your strange requirement of considerable support.
    I did not inquire about the Provos but considering they had “a head of steam” (support) by your logic their campaign was terrorism. I will assume you did not go to jail for nicking a penny chew from a newsagents would your (alleged) involvement then by your own arrangement make you a former terrorist. That only applies if my assumption is correct. I arrive at that conclusion as your logic allows me considering you allegedly belonged to that numerical value you assign to qualify a faction terrorist.

    Considering you are extremely pro-British, why do you have so much trouble in answering a simple yes or no question?
    It is either yes, they are or no, they are not.

    Perhaps when you depart from the land you despise so well you might consider a trip to the fictional land of OZ. I believe a powerful wizard resides in that land and if you politely ask he might give you a brain, a heart and courage unfortunately his powers are limited so he will not be able to help you with basic comprehension.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Larry ,Alfie Thatcher once described us as "Mad, Bad, and going nowhere, well a chairde two outa three aint bad I suppose..

    ReplyDelete
  97. Tain Bo
    once again a linguistic cryptic scenic route post. Entertaining as always.

    Who cares what label is put on dissidents. They have me nearly as confused as they are pathetic. Give them 5,000 labels. One for every splinter group they fragmented into. No one is interested. Disgusted as many are at SF these days...their assessment of the disidents rings true regardless of our like or dislike for SF.

    Turning back the clock to the good old bad old days is not a popular option. Not an option at all. They 'may' be freedom fighters to the deperately nostalgic. They 'may' be terrorists to the vast majority. But they are 'definitely' a minor pain in the fukn arse to society, nothing more.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Marty
    methinks you enjoyed your 'outing' yesterday. Bring back memories ?

    ReplyDelete
  99. Tain Bo
    reflecting upon your concern for abuses of authority/law. Does it follow that Billy Wright [king rodent] who was jailed for alledgedly threatening to kill a female witness should have been freed? Should there be an inquiry into his death? Did you offer support to his dad?

    How do you feel about the revelation that there was absolutely no DNA or forensic evidence to connect the accused in Maritious to the victim, mr. Harte's daughter? I'm interested to ascertain just how genuine the 'no agenda' claims are. Especially as people were calling for those arrested to be hung immediately on here at the time.

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  100. Larry a cara the pleasure I got was from the expressions of amazement on Clare and Gerry,s face,s at the turnout in support of their campaign to have Marian released,it was/is great to see that after all the people and I mean people from Scotland England, the republic,and Derry come together to demand justice for this woman,it was indeed a blast from the past to see so many people putting it up to those in authority that their draconian actions such as internment will not go unopposed.

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  101. Marty
    I think Gerry Kelly must be reflecting a tad just how sucked in they all are. And where they left everyone else in their haste to get there. You could look past it if SF were vigorous and assertive in Stormont. But they are less than civil servants. O'Dowd sums them up for me in all honesty.

    Having said that i continue to hold my view the armed struggle is over in Ireland. SF and 'time' has seen to that. But knowing you personally, i'm delighted you enjoyed putting it up to the fukrs once more...haha hats off to ye wee marty.

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  102. Larry yip a cara the armed struggle is over. qsf or I should say the agents of influence at the top made sure of that,and as we have seen today in the big world events the united nations have decided not to intervene militarily in Syria because they couldnt guarantee victory ,its a lesson our militant republicans need to take on board,its not to say that we should now roll over like qsf on the contrary we need to change tactics which then leaves the brits top heavy here in terms of spies,gunmen, and equipment ,we really dont have to do much the qsf/dup road show will do it for us,
    Alec,his mum Nuala,Marie, Clare Gerry,Pauline and the other women deserve the credit for the march organisation, the shopkeepers should be applauded for generously handing out bottled water on such a scorching day and me well a cara I felt proud that at last our people are begining to see how desperate this situation is that a local woman can be interned and kept in isolation by a tory mp for nothing more than revenge, I,m proud that the fighting Irish still have the fight in them..

    ReplyDelete
  103. Larry,
    ‘How do you feel about the revelation that there was absolutely no DNA or forensic evidence to connect the accused in Maritious to the victim, mr. Harte's daughter? I'm interested to ascertain just how genuine the 'no agenda' claims are. Especially as people were calling for those arrested to be hung immediately on here at the time.’

    Why do you not apply the same level of justice to people you perceive of as guilty for being clerics, never mind that there are proportionally less paedophile priests than any other group going? In fact you have called for me to be handed over to the police, and when challenged could not explain why! Why would you judge the Parish priest of Pomeroy, without a hearing? You have also judged Marian Price and labelled others as ‘dissidents.’ It is so much easier to persecute those you have depersonalised.

    Now back to your anti-Harte agenda. It now seems that you have discovered that justice should be seen to be done. Do you think that non-Catholics and non-‘dissidents’ are the only people entitled to justice? Catholic priests and ‘dissidents’ being guilty by association.

    My call, at the time, was that those who murdered Michaela deserved the ultimate penalty. I still think that. It goes without saying that it is those who did it who deserve such punishment, not those who didn’t.

    For the rest: the war is not over, Gerry can’t make that call; you can’t make that call. ‘Ireland unfree shall never be at peace.’

    ReplyDelete
  104. John
    you can't leave the GAY issue out of anything. [come out of the closet and be done with it!!]

    The RC clergy collectively knew about, facilitated and or turned a blind eye to child rape from top to 'bottom' in the church. The institution is rotten and GUILTY. All facilitators and excusers of child rape should be castrated and given life sentences. What that has to do with two impoverished 'natives' in Maritious being stitched up only you can fathom. Hope the RUC defectives are enjoyin the holiday by the way. They are in safe company.

    I'm not spouting selective justice here. I'm refusing to 'pretend' people like Marian are whiter than snow. That's all. Not being led around by the nose...or any other apendage Johnboy.

    Johnboy..the war IS over. The Irish people voted it so. On both sides of the wee border. No-one wants your vision of Ireland in 2012. RC church running the country for rapist priests and shootings and bombings and waste. Who the hell wants their kids dying for that oul shite...pick up the pace johnboy..2012 the rest of us live in not the 1932 Free State.

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  105. Johnboy
    really hope for your sake no sordid deviant sexual revelations come 'out' in this case in Maritious. Don't think your Catholic Mother Ireland can inflict yet another sex scandal upon us, surely it hasn't the libido and energy left!? Defeats me where your 'faith' would seek refuge in such a scenario. As for the wider society, personaly I think Ireland has had enough filth and dirt inflicted upon it. But hey...what's one more dirty revelation going to do now huh?

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  106. Larry,
    "really hope for your sake no sordid deviant sexual revelations come 'out' in this case in Maritious."

    Your fanatical hatred of Ireland, the Catholic Church and the GAA has reached a depth even I did not believe possible.

    You are pure SCUM! ( A word I reserve for use so rarely, I can't remember the last time I used it!)

    ReplyDelete
  107. AM

    From Sandy Boyer:

    Marian Is no longer the only woman political prisoner in the North. Sharon Rafferty was arrested yesterday and denied bail. She was reportedly being
    sent to Hydebank Prison where Marian is bring held.

    So sorry to hear Sharon has been lifted, i sincerely hope she does not have to go through Marians ordeal and is released without charge.

    I am alarmed at some of the posts on this particular blog about getting Marian Released, seems to much bickering is going on, if its not about religion, Gays, Touts, its something else, now i am beginning to wonder why No One has commented on the arrest of Sharon.
    If everyone goes of the main subject of this blog, then, why post on it, if its not a positive comment.

    Firstly, MARIAN, held the piece of paper as the Man/Woman could not as it was to windy, He/She was holding a microphone ,DID MARIAN SPEAK, answer = NO, what if she had taken the Microphone of him/her and held that instead, would that make her GUILTY as well, answer = NO.
    Now, this is my view on the Shitters, They were groombed by the Brits, way back when the were flown from the Kesh for secret talks in London, No one knows who instigated those talks, No one knows what those secret talks were about, except Adams and Co and British Intelligence , my firm belief is, that they were under the BOOT of the BRITS, how else could you have so many touts in the top echelon, they also made sure every vote would go in there favour, by, Manipulation.
    Now thats all i am going to say about the shitters and posts not relating to Marians RELEASE.

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  108. john
    take the plank from thy own eye... or just the blinkers off. Ireland has moved on from the 1930s. No-one wants your version of it. That place only exists in your sick facilitating head...thank zod.

    itsjustmackers
    i dont go to dissident functions to hold paper, microphones or indulge in threats or glory in others making them. Hence i'll be extremely shocked if i'm interned.

    Agree to an extent on your Adams theory. But recon it was worked gently bently, over a prolonged period with willing guineapigs, ie Adams + co. Knighthood is the logical conclusion to the story, why else was Gerry Fitt gotten rid of?

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  109. I believe we are where we are today through the very carefully managed manipulation of the republican movement by the brit security forces,I agree in as much that I believe the bearded one was tutored and groomed by agents of influence to believe that he was an international statesman, the bearded ones long war was in fact I believe the brits stage managing the destruction of the armed struggle,which they managed spectacularly,they eliminated any danger around their man slowly and effectively and in such a way they could not reemerge O Bradaigh in sinn fein Bell in the army,after the hawks and doves debacle in 86 I think ,the bearded one controlled the whole movement both army and psf, which in turn allowed the AC and ard chomhairle to be filled with yes men and women ,the usurping of the hunger strikers right to decide on the deal offered,the deaths of activists in ambushes like Loughgall all strengthened the whispering agents that the war wasnt going anywhere and the rest is history, the brits played a blinder Marian, Martin and the rest are just hostages to keep the pot simmering so that mi5/6 can justify their enormous budget here like a cat after it has caught a mouse it half kills it then plays /tortures it, republicans need to get wise to whats going on ,we need to get these hostages out and then regroup and continue the fight for a socialist republic but as I said before on our terms this time.

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  110. John/Larry, big boys' rules and all that but it is getting out of hand.

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  111. Larry,

    “once again a linguistic cryptic scenic route post. Entertaining as always.

    Who cares what label is put on dissidents. They have me nearly as confused as they are pathetic. Give them 5,000 labels. One for every splinter group they fragmented into. No one is interested. Disgusted as many are at SF these days...their assessment of the disidents rings true regardless of our like or dislike for SF.

    Turning back the clock to the good old bad old days is not a popular option. Not an option at all. They 'may' be freedom fighters to the deperately nostalgic. They 'may' be terrorists to the vast majority. But they are 'definitely' a minor pain in the fukn arse to society, nothing more.”

    Are you complimenting me or asking me to dumb my language down to suit your inadequate comprehension.

    Who are they that have you confused and why add they are pathetic as that is a self-inflicted insult as you juxtapose they being pathetic and you being confused.
    I need labels to identify as “they” could be anyone the PSNI and British intelligence would probably disagree with who cares what label dissidents have. They also would be extremely interested so that somewhat quietly disposes of your drama argument. I also would believe society would be interested considering your original argument of dissidents threatening to plunge us back into war or does that only apply when it suits your position.
    You comment more on dissidents that would mean you hold an interest so your whining contradictions only serve your purposeless argument.

    I do not follow your logic interment would qualify as reversing the clock yet you side with injustice and seem to believe that only dissidents live in the not so distant past.
    It is marching season and this is an accepted form of celebrating the past would you agree that the sectarian law that forbids Catholics from sitting on the throne is also living in the past.
    Did you not use your alleged past as a nostalgic defense when Tiarna out matched you.

    For something, you consider a minor pain in your rectum I would suggest you see a proctologist, as I was unaware that you were elected to speak on behalf of society.

    Eventually militant dissidents might come to terms the Alamo is lost and reinforcements are not coming or the 300 can only defend the pass for so long.
    I have already stated I would rather see dissidents unite and become a political party.

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  112. AM.

    Well Said.

    Larry.

    I don't have a clue as to what you are on about, I Have not Mentioned any ones name, why post this , "dont go to dissident functions to hold paper, microphones or indulge in threats or glory in others making them. Hence i'll be extremely shocked if i'm interned."

    Well, I would be very shocked if you were interned as well!.

    But, Thanks for partly agreeing with me on the Adams and Co speaking secretly with MI5/MI6.
    Now that i have said my piece, as one man to another, no matter which country you are blogging from, this blog is about Getting Marian and the others released.
    As for Gerry Fitt, Many a time I used to have a wee drink with him in Ballycastle before his demise.

    Case Closed .

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  113. itsjustmacker
    so many people are to this 'internment' issue what john is to the RC church; determinedly blinkered. Ignoring the reality won't change peoples views on the issue.

    if peoples inteligence is insulted by campaigners refusal to accept what Marrian did was silly, then support will remain minimal. Why get her out or pardoned for her to do it all again? Maybe a blog on asking for a pardon and then honouring it might be an idea?

    Gerry Fitt was probably a decent guy. How sad it is what was done to him.

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  114. Larry

    “Should there be an inquiry into his death? Did you offer support to his dad?”

    Do you even read what you write? Yes, I support his right to inquiry; I would suggest you read up on matters before pulling them out of a luckybag.

    “The father of Loyalist Volunteer Force leader Billy Wright is expected to take legal action if today's report into the death of his son inside the Maze prison fails to conclude there was collusion between the state and his son's republican killers.
    The inquiry into Wright's death, which has cost £30m, is expected to be highly critical of security around the jail in December 1997 when the loyalist leader was shot dead by two Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) inmates.
    The Guardian understands that David Wright is already receiving legal advice on his next move if collusion is not at the centre of the report.
    One of Wright's killers, John Kennaway, claimed that "security was a joke" at the time they shot the LVF founder, but Kennaway, who later died in Maghaberry jail, denied any collusion between the INLA and any branch of the security forces.
    The report is due to be published this afternoon after the Northern Ireland secretary, Owen Paterson, addresses the House of Commons and is expected to be highly critical of the Prison Service.
    The murder, just two days after Christmas, threatened to wreck the tense all-party political negotiations in the months before the signing of the Good Friday agreement the following year.
    Wright, from Portadown, Co Armagh, who was linked to up to 20 murders of mostly Catholics, was sitting in the back of a prison van waiting to be taken to meet his visiting girlfriend when he was shot seven times.
    Three republican prisoners belonging to the INLA, a republican breakaway faction, were involved.
    Two of the three, Christopher "Crip" McWilliams and John Kennaway, had been transferred into the same H-Block as Wright the previous May, just weeks after Wright was moved from Maghaberry prison, also near Lisburn, Co Antrim, to serve out an eight-year sentence. The INLA had previously tried to kill Wright in Maghaberry.
    The two men and a third man, John Glennon, armed with a semi-automatic pistol and a double-barrelled .22 Derringer, moved in to kill him after hearing his name announced over the prison public address system.
    They surrendered themselves to prison staff after negotiations with a Catholic chaplain and were later sentenced to life imprisonment but released early under the terms of the 1998 peace deal.
    McWilliams later died of cancer while Kennaway took his own life while being held in Maghaberry prison.”

    I will gracefully bow out, as you offer nothing in dialogue and are blissfully ignorant.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Larry,


    “reflecting upon your concern for abuses of authority/law. Does it follow that Billy Wright [king rodent] who was jailed for alledgedly threatening to kill a female witness should have been freed? Should there be an inquiry into his death? Did you offer support to his dad?”

    “How do you feel about the revelation that there was absolutely no DNA or forensic evidence to connect the accused in Maritious to the victim, mr. Harte's daughter? I'm interested to ascertain just how genuine the 'no agenda' claims are. Especially as people were calling for those arrested to be hung immediately on here at the time.”

    After reading your abusive comments that clearly demonstrate, your only interest in the Harte’s case is not about justice or legal procedure only selfishness and some strange display of self-satisfaction and need to agitate. I refuse to answer your comment on the tragic loss again you display your ignorance and that selfishness you freely boasted.

    As for Billy Wright that is an odd choice to pick a Loyalist Dissident who opposed the peace agreement.

    “He was given eight years for threatening to kill a Portadown woman, Gwen Reed, whom he'd known for 20 years. The incident happened in Portadown, just two weeks before I first met him—and heard his many denials of any involvement in violence. What happened was that seven masked men, armed with sledgehammers and pickaxes, attacked the boyfriend of the woman's daughter, in a punishment beating. The woman's daughter Nicola tried to shield her boyfriend, and was injured. The next day, Wright told Mrs Reed that “I'm going to fucking shoot you,” after he'd also warned her son that “I'm coming after you.” The judge said he found Wright's evidence “utterly unconvincing.”

    The Judge believed the evidence and Billy was afforded a trial so I have no idea why you pulled that out as an argument and unless the law declared him innocent then your use of alleged only highlights the fact that you are noticeably lenient towards males and consistent with a poor attitude towards females.

    Would you say Marian has been treated fairly?

    ReplyDelete
  116. Tain Bo
    no she has not been treated fairly and she should be released. My ongoing criticism here is the total refusal of people to admit her own judgement on the day doesn't help her case in the eyes of the neutral.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Tain Bo
    if a former lifer or pardoned prisoner brings attention to themselves associating with 'terrorists' their lisence is liable to be revoked. Where is the need for a trial? This is what people don't get about the campaign. It's not a fresh issue.

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  118. Larry.

    My Stance is.

    I support the release of Republican political prisoners who have been interned through the back door. If evidence is available, then let a jury decide.

    I could not give one iota what you and John and, Others call each other.
    Johns religious beliefs are his business, Not Mine. I think it would be best if you created a new post on "All Religions and the abuse therein.

    I am sorry to say, i will not be replying to any further comments levied towards me.
    I will not fall into your trap, many here have.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Larry, you do not express yourself as being neutral. Marian is entitled to a presumption of innocence like anyone else.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Anthony,

    'John/Larry, big boys' rules and all that but it is getting out of hand.'

    My apologies.

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  121. Larry,
    Opinion is free unlike Marian when or if she goes to court the law shall decide innocence or guilt.
    You are fixated on a piece of paper held up by a woman in a graveyard on one hand you say this threatens stability on the other you are confused by the dissidents as they are pathetic drunk touts. I don’t believe you see the absurdity of your position either they are a danger or they are pathetic.
    In my mind, your logic is more frightening than her action.

    ReplyDelete
  122. It dosent matter if Marian was mad bad or whatever, stupid insane it make not the slightest difference,the fact that she AND Martin are interned is wrong, internment was wrong when first introduced by the brits in the Boer war,and used here in every generation since . the removal of a persons liberty without due process is frighteningly dangerous and must be opposed by everyone .the whyfore doesnt matter its the act that needs to be addressed by all right thinking people.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Tain Bo
    i wish you luck in your campaign to have Marian freed. Then you can both go around the country in fancy dress advocating a return to war.

    John
    i wound you up too much and it was way over the top. Apologies.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Tain Bo

    'Price, also known by her married name Marian McGlinchey, was to have appeared before Belfast Crown Court where she faces a charge of providing a mobile phone to the gang responsible for the killings of Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey at Massereene barracks in Antrim in 2009'.

    ReplyDelete
  125. thinkin of changing my blogger ID to 'NOT THE PINBALL WIZZARD' ffs.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Thanks Larry. I was wrong to take things so personally as I did and I apologise for the personal insults, against the good advice of Alfie.

    Time to move on and concentrate on getting the POWs out, and the Brits out of Ireland, by one means or another.

    Free Marian Price now!

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  127. John/Larry,

    good approach. No need for apologies. It happens. No saints here! But it does help when people pull back


    Larry,

    when you sit down and read the history of Operation Barbarossa it really puts war into context. It should always be something of last resort. Unfortunately for republicans here many of them see it as something of first resort. And much of it has been inherited from what the Adams leadership preached.

    Marty,

    Who could write a dissertation saying they believe the Committee narrative and come out credible? They would be sent home with a dunce's hat. There may well be a case that can be made on behalf of the Committee but up until now those making it have failed hopelessly.

    Richard remained determined throughout and was not about to allow the thugs to silence him. Now he has won the argument. It could have been so much different had his detractors come out and admitted a tactical error. But they way they sought to gut him signaled that if they could treat him that way they would hardly refrain from treating the hunger strikers with a similar disdain. Now it is too late for them. Too many people believe they entered the prison hospital on July 5, 1981 with a pillow and smothered the boys. Even if they didn't they have left it too late to retrieve. The exposure on this issue is probably the main reason Morrison is working with/alongside the Brits in trying to have the tapes turned over.

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  128. Marty,

    yes, we must allow for the possibility of Pearse being wrong. No man is infallible. But then, I am not a fan of Pearse. All that red wine of the battlefield blood does nothing for me.


    Itsjustmacker

    this is not a republican blog but a general blog and people are free to comment about what they please and how they please, be it gays, religion or anything else. And you are free to comment about the detention of Sharon Rafferty and arouse interest in readers by doing so. The blog does not try to force unity of purpose. It merely allows a free discussion of ideas.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anthony It would have been more humane and kinder if they had entered the hospital wing and put a pillow over those poor lads heads.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Larry,

    endearing indeed but I done the quick math on the chance or probability of your strange fantasy becoming a reality and the numbers safely return highly improbable.

    However, amusingly if such a tour did occur I would definitely make an imaginary stop along the way
    to view a fictional character the pinball wizard just out of curiosity to see if he is still bent over propping up his beloved Owen Patterson which would probably explain the pain in the wizards rectum.

    Even your insults are dull.



    “i wish you luck in your campaign to have Marian freed. Then you can both go around the country in fancy dress advocating a return to war.”

    ReplyDelete
  131. Larry,

    'Price, also known by her married name Marian McGlinchey, was to have appeared before Belfast Crown Court where she faces a charge of providing a mobile phone to the gang responsible for the killings of Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey at Massereene barracks in Antrim in 2009'.

    Allegedly providing as to my knowledge she has not been proven guilty and convicted in a court of law.
    You again display your personal hatred and ignorance in what you see as a justification for your idiocy.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Larry,
    That is not all you are saying that is all you can put together and keep repeating.
    Perhaps you should go after the Simpsons producers or maybe in your strange world of justice you could somehow mange to link Marian Price to this.
    Bart Simpson and the IRA:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnsIxA75VTU

    The character Homer is as interesting as his namesake was wise.

    ReplyDelete
  133. John
    cheers for that. You weren't wrong. You're faith is genuine. It's too easy for me to be fecetious, being totally cynical myself. But at times it was way too much...

    ReplyDelete
  134. Larry /John
    Why are we being left out of the apologises piece of the post least you forget we out here also read the Blog . But its nice to see you guys soften up on each other ,but hell don’t go all soppy on us.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Larry,

    'if a former lifer or pardoned prisoner brings attention to themselves associating with 'terrorists' their license is liable to be revoked. Where is the need for a trial?'

    This is very much an endorsement of internment without trial. Surely the argument must be that the British should not have the right to do this.


    'My ongoing criticism here is the total refusal of people to admit her own judgement on
    the day doesn't help her case in the eyes of the neutral.'

    Even if true, surely a case for the neutral to open their eyes?

    John,

    'For the rest: the war is not over, Gerry can't make that call; you can't
    make that call. '

    War is such a terrible thing that you would imagine the sane would do as much as possible to avoid it. The insane would revere war in a way that only insanity can. The people can make the call for or against war. Larry, or Gerry Adams for that matter, have more right to make a call against war than they would have to call for it. I am talking here in ethical terms not freedom of speech ones.

    Larry,

    'dissidents who engage in violent activities can expect to be arrested. It's their choice.'

    This really asks the question of what rights people have against those who wish to use political violence. It seems to me sheer arrogance for republicans to insist on having rights to use violence over and against the wishes of those who insist on it not being used. It is like a religious mode of thought: we have the inalienable right to inflict our violent perspective on society against the wishes of those in society.

    It is a power republicans should not have. In my view republicanism should be rights driven not power driven.

    'As for protesting on behalf of people I don't agree with; no way.'

    This leads to the dangerous situation of rights being applied to only those who agree with us.

    Ian Brady is a fiend but I supported the journalists who campaigned against the way he was treated by his jailors. I hardly agree with the loyalists who were in court a while back on the evidence of supergrasses but I back the acquittal. I think it vitally important that such a verdict was delivered. Law enforcement should not have such dubious powers. It undermines any rights culture.

    I know this perspective is hard to hold to. At least I find it that way but a rights culture is constructed so as to constrain us and give people rights against us.

    'People are more angry at dissident antics than with their treatment i believe.'

    I think this is reflected in the degree of support for the PSNI and lack of it for the dissidents. Dissidents need to consider this rather than wish it away because they don't like it.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Marian Price should be released immediately.

    Marty,

    'It dosent matter if Marian was mad bad or whatever, stupid insane it make
    not the slightest difference,the fact that she AND Martin are interned is
    wrong.'

    I think this is the crucial point.

    Larry,

    'Tain Bo I wish you luck in your campaign to have Marian freed. Then you can both go
    around the country in fancy dress advocating a return to war.'

    I have once heard Tain Bo argue for a return to war. In fact I believe he has counseled strongly against any such thing.

    ReplyDelete
  137. From Helen McClafferty:


    May Priority Questions - Human Rights Issues Maghaberry Prisoners


    Maureen asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the steps he and his Department have taken, and are taking, in addressing the human rights conditions of prisoners in Maghaberry Prison, County Antrim, including the human rights of the prisoner who has been moved to Hydebank Prison.

    ... Deputy Eamon Gilmore: The issue of prisons within Northern Ireland is a devolved matter related to the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland Prison Service. Arising from the Hillsborough Agreement of February 2010, Dame Ann Owers and the prison review team undertook a review of the prison system. In October 2011 their report made 40 recommendations on prison reform in Northern Ireland. The Minister for Justice, Mr. David Ford, MLA, has underlined his commitment to full implementation of the recommendations and has described the prison reform process as “unstoppable”. I had an opportunity to discuss the reform process with him at our most recent meeting on 20 April. . . .

    . . . . Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: The denial of medical treatment and the way in which medication has been withheld from one of the male prisoners are very serious issues. I am also aware of issues regarding the health of Marian Price. When is a royal prerogative not a royal prerogative? Is it when it suits the authorities in the North and in England? Mr. Owen Paterson, MP, has not been elected by anyone in the North and is not accountable to the electorate in the North, but he seems to be able to disregard human rights legislation and legal issues. We speak about human rights at meetings of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade and we take up the cases of prisoners in Bahrain, Iran and China. Yet, this is happening up the road and is an urgent matter because one of the prisoners will die

    ReplyDelete
  138. mackers

    'This really asks the question of what rights people have against those who wish to use political violence. It seems to me sheer arrogance for republicans to insist on having rights to use violence over and against the wishes of those who insist on it not being used. It is like a religious mode of thought: we have the inalienable right to inflict our violent perspective on society against the wishes of those in society'.

    this is where i see dissidents...its like we have the right to kill, maim, threaten everyone..PUBLICLY..but our civil rights are NOT to be messed with...yeagh right lol

    ReplyDelete
  139. Reply from 10 DOWNING ST;
    Re; the internment of Marian Price.
    Dear Mrs Flynn.
    I am writing on behalf of the Prime Minister to thank you for your letter of 26 April
    It is good of you to have taken the time and trouble to get in touch with Mr Cameron
    I am afraid we are unable to address the matters you raise as these fall within the devolved responsibilities of the Northern Ireland Assembly,you may wish to contact them directly by writing to the following address;public information office,Northern Ireland Assembly,Parliament Buildings,Belfast BT43XX
    yours sincerely (scrawl)
    this is a reply Marie has receieved from Cameron,s office in Downing st re the continuing internment of Marian, if we are to read this correctly then the power to have Marian released Does lie in the hands of qsf and allinatrances Ford,those who masquerade as republicans in Stormont need to stop playing Nero and face this issue before we reach a point of no return.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Marty
    ask them can i visit America in yer next letter lol

    point of no return?? could that be 'reality' haha

    ReplyDelete
  141. We sent Liz the brit a letter yesterday,telling her one of her minions has lost Marians pardon, and could she bring another one over when she comes a calling, we cant wait for her reply..Tain bo and John have sent me the fare for a flight to America for Larry, they reckon the lad will right at home in DISNEY WORLD..I,m away to Ballyshannon in the sunshine to remember Rory Gallagher and lie in a boat for a few days .drown a few worms and chase a sheep or two..

    ReplyDelete
  142. marty
    make it business class will ye? if its an immediate turnaround again it like some comfort.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Marty,

    I think it was Charles De Gaulle who once said that the cemeteries are filled with indispensable young men

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  144. Marty,

    it was gutsy of Anita do do what she thought the right thing. It shows that there are people who have a conscientious objection to bog standard and time honoured British policies yet who will not lend their support to armed campaigns of any republican hue.

    But republican prisoners play only a very small part in SF's considerations these days. Unlike when it was a republican party it openly wants republicans imprisoned. As fugazi as republicanism might look to many of us the idea of backing the British state in its repressive policies or its political policing seems unpalatable.

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  145. Marty,

    a struggle as long as the IRA one was always going to produce an abundance of agents. The entire infrastructure was susceptible to it. I think the agent of influence dimension played an enormous role. For the AOIs it was much easier for them to hide than the operational tout. The spread of British ideas was fundamental to the erosion of republicanism and the defeat of the republican struggle. The armed struggle in my view could never have been won anyway and in those circumstances it is important to do the right thing and pack it in. The men of 1916 blazed an honourable trail in that respect. They did not come out of the GPO bowing and scraping to the monarchy and claiming a victory.

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  146. Mackers

    'The men of 1916 blazed an honourable trail in that respect. They did not come out of the GPO bowing and scraping to the monarchy and claiming a victory'.

    Lest we forget...Arthur Griffith was a monarchist..and he wasn't alone.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Larry,

    true but it hardly invalidates the point being made

    ReplyDelete